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> Building a healthy remote working culture could also bring other benefits to Portugal, Mendes Godinho said, in the form of foreign remote workers seeking a ch

> Building a healthy remote working culture could also bring other benefits to Portugal, Mendes Godinho said, in the form of foreign remote workers seeking a change of scenery. > "We consider Portugal one of the best places in the world for these digital nomads and remote workers to choose to live in, we want to attract them to Portugal," she told the Web Summit audience. Portugal has form in this regard. If it sets out to do this at a national level, it will likely actually deliver. It has already succeeded in making itself a great place for other nationals to retire to, for example. Portugal has deliberately arranged its tax system to attract pensioners, and done big sales pushes. And it works. Lots of Swedish pensioners, for example, receive a Swedish state pension but spend that money in their new retirement home in Portugal.

galfarragem 5y ago
Welcome to Portugal! The country where nationals get one of the highest tax rates in Europe[0] and foreigners get a tax haven! [0] https://taxfoundation.org/personal-income-tax-rates-europe/ https://taxfoundation.org/personal-income-tax-rates-europe/
- nuerow 5y ago
  > (...) nationals get one of the highest tax rates in Europe[0] and foreigners get a tax haven! Why is this bad? If foreigners don't move to Portugal then they contribute zero in taxes and to the economy. If the Portuguese government convinces people to move to Portugal with tax benefits, they will pay taxes and spend their income in the local economy.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    > Why is this bad? It's great for Portuguese Treasury, Real Estate investors and the Hospitality Industry. But terrible for everyone else living in Portugal. Foreign buyers have driven the housing market well above the purchasing power of locals, who still have one of the lowest salaries in Europe specially when adjusted to cost of living. For perspective, Portuguese minimum wage is 600 euros with a mode at around 1k per month (pre-tax).
    - nuerow 5y ago
      > It's great for Portuguese Treasury, Real Estate investors and the Hospitality Industry. But terrible for everyone else living in Portugal. Why do you believe that? I mean, is no one working in the hospitality or constructions industry, and is no one benefiting from public spending? > Foreign buyers have driven the housing market well above the purchasing power of locals, who still have one of the lowest salaries in Europe specially when adjusted to cost of living. If there is foreign investment in real estate increasing supply and in the process creating jobs and tax revenue, and if there is an increase in demand for this specific market segment, isn't there a net benefit to society? And why do you assume that low-wage workers would be in the market for high-end housing in tourism centers if not for these foreign investors? > For perspective, Portuguese minimum wage is 600 euros with a mode at around 1k per month (pre-tax). A quick Google search points out that Portugal offers golden visas to real estate investors who spend more than €500k on a home[1]. That's hardly the same market segment being serving the demand of most citizens of western Europe. Why is this being spun as a "they're taking our jobs"-kind of propaganda? [1] https://www.ft.com/content/36e18c72-512b-4c87-a41f-8ba2a9157020 https://www.ft.com/content/36e18c72-512b-4c87-a41f-8ba2a9157...
      - Scharkenberg 5y ago
        I might be interpreting it wrong, but I read it in the "gentrification"-like way, not in the "they're taking our jobs" way.
        DoingIsLearning 5y ago
        Indeed, the main issue is the earnings stagnation that Portuguese have experienced following post-2008. For perspective, many of the EU members that were behind the iron curtain have already surpassed Portugal in terms of PPP. This loss in buying power is further exacerbated by the assymetry in housing costs precipitated by 'short-stay accomodation' Tourism and foreign pensioners driving up gentrification. The golden visa argument from OP is non-sense. Despite the media controversy in the EU regarding Portugal and Cyprus golden visas, in Portugal these visas accounted for less than 17k families that actually settled in Portugal.
  - galfarragem 5y ago
    > Why is this bad? I’m not an inequality whiner but having two sets of rules is too much for me.. How would you feel if you were a local?
- pkaye 5y ago
  Though according to that link, the top income bracket is 14x the average wage in Portugal vs Sweden where it is 1.1x average wage.
odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
Yeah, and now Sweden is/was considering limiting this as it considers Portugal a tax haven for their nationals. This (and previous) government can suck balls. They don't give a shit about the actual portuguese living here. High tax rates, shitty public services, but if they can attract any foreign money to look good, fuck the portuguese. And don't get me started on how these foreigners that get tax exempt status drive up prices of everything here (ps: no problem with foreigners per se, just the ones that get special tax status). Had French and Italian people here literally tell me that what they save in taxes with these schemes basically pays for the house, so they don't mind paying more for the houses (I worked with some real estate companies) https://algarvedailynews.com/news/14974-swedes-in-portugal-face-end-of-tax-free-living https://algarvedailynews.com/news/14974-swedes-in-portugal-f...
- JetSpiegel 5y ago
  Finland even complained that some double taxation laws were depriving the Finish state of taxes, and then Portugal didn't collect them either, creating a loophole. They will start to collect them anyway from their retirees.

galfarragem 5y ago

Welcome to Portugal! The country where nationals get one of the highest tax rates in Europe[0] and foreigners get a tax haven! [0] https://taxfoundation.org/personal-income-tax-rates-europe/ https://taxfoundation.org/personal-income-tax-rates-europe/

nuerow 5y ago
> (...) nationals get one of the highest tax rates in Europe[0] and foreigners get a tax haven! Why is this bad? If foreigners don't move to Portugal then they contribute zero in taxes and to the economy. If the Portuguese government convinces people to move to Portugal with tax benefits, they will pay taxes and spend their income in the local economy.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  > Why is this bad? It's great for Portuguese Treasury, Real Estate investors and the Hospitality Industry. But terrible for everyone else living in Portugal. Foreign buyers have driven the housing market well above the purchasing power of locals, who still have one of the lowest salaries in Europe specially when adjusted to cost of living. For perspective, Portuguese minimum wage is 600 euros with a mode at around 1k per month (pre-tax).
  - nuerow 5y ago
    > It's great for Portuguese Treasury, Real Estate investors and the Hospitality Industry. But terrible for everyone else living in Portugal. Why do you believe that? I mean, is no one working in the hospitality or constructions industry, and is no one benefiting from public spending? > Foreign buyers have driven the housing market well above the purchasing power of locals, who still have one of the lowest salaries in Europe specially when adjusted to cost of living. If there is foreign investment in real estate increasing supply and in the process creating jobs and tax revenue, and if there is an increase in demand for this specific market segment, isn't there a net benefit to society? And why do you assume that low-wage workers would be in the market for high-end housing in tourism centers if not for these foreign investors? > For perspective, Portuguese minimum wage is 600 euros with a mode at around 1k per month (pre-tax). A quick Google search points out that Portugal offers golden visas to real estate investors who spend more than €500k on a home[1]. That's hardly the same market segment being serving the demand of most citizens of western Europe. Why is this being spun as a "they're taking our jobs"-kind of propaganda? [1] https://www.ft.com/content/36e18c72-512b-4c87-a41f-8ba2a9157020 https://www.ft.com/content/36e18c72-512b-4c87-a41f-8ba2a9157...
    - Scharkenberg 5y ago
      I might be interpreting it wrong, but I read it in the "gentrification"-like way, not in the "they're taking our jobs" way.
      - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
        Indeed, the main issue is the earnings stagnation that Portuguese have experienced following post-2008. For perspective, many of the EU members that were behind the iron curtain have already surpassed Portugal in terms of PPP. This loss in buying power is further exacerbated by the assymetry in housing costs precipitated by 'short-stay accomodation' Tourism and foreign pensioners driving up gentrification. The golden visa argument from OP is non-sense. Despite the media controversy in the EU regarding Portugal and Cyprus golden visas, in Portugal these visas accounted for less than 17k families that actually settled in Portugal.
- galfarragem 5y ago
  > Why is this bad? I’m not an inequality whiner but having two sets of rules is too much for me.. How would you feel if you were a local?
pkaye 5y ago
Though according to that link, the top income bracket is 14x the average wage in Portugal vs Sweden where it is 1.1x average wage.

odshoifsdhfs 5y ago

Yeah, and now Sweden is/was considering limiting this as it considers Portugal a tax haven for their nationals. This (and previous) government can suck balls. They don't give a shit about the actual portuguese living here. High tax rates, shitty public services, but if they can attract any foreign money to look good, fuck the portuguese. And don't get me started on how these foreigners that get tax exempt status drive up prices of everything here (ps: no problem with foreigners per se, just the ones that get special tax status). Had French and Italian people here literally tell me that what they save in taxes with these schemes basically pays for the house, so they don't mind paying more for the houses (I worked with some real estate companies) https://algarvedailynews.com/news/14974-swedes-in-portugal-face-end-of-tax-free-living https://algarvedailynews.com/news/14974-swedes-in-portugal-f...

JetSpiegel 5y ago
Finland even complained that some double taxation laws were depriving the Finish state of taxes, and then Portugal didn't collect them either, creating a loophole. They will start to collect them anyway from their retirees.