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That's a different conversation. And yes, I agree with you.

by 47nil 5y ago

drekk 5y ago
Actually, the conversation was Israel's use of a facial recognition program against a captive population. You deflected it by saying "well all countries do that" and conflated criticism of Israel with criticism of all Jews. I'm Jewish. I'm not a Zionist. You don't speak for us and it's frankly embarrassing to see discussion of modern day apartheid state shut down because "teacher teacher we didn't start it!"
- 47nil 5y ago
  Alright then. Let's create a Palestinean state, ask all the Palestinians inside of Israel to move there, to be governed by their own elected government, and stop attacking Israel. Oh, wait... Yeah, no. You do understand that the so called "Apartheid" doesn't exists, right? If you ask the Israeli Arabs if they would move to "Palestine", the majority would tell you no. The Arabs living inside of Israel, not Gaza, and not the west bank, have the same rights, votes, representation in the Knesset (congress), free education, free healthcare, and the same rights to work than jews, Druze, christians, and the Bahai. If you have 90% of the terrorism coming from a specific place, you will monitor that. It has nothing to do with apartheid. And you saying this, specially as a jew, shows a complete ignorance for the subject at hand. I lived in Israel for 20 years. I lived in South Africa during the apartheid, I saw what that is. I also lived in South America during the Juntas and military governments. Israel is neither. People don't spend the time in Israel understanding this, or at least reading about it. Sorry, but it doesn't matter how much you scream or how much you can call me anything, truth is truth. Have a good one.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    > ask all the Palestinians inside of Israel to move there Why should they agree to this?
    - 47nil 5y ago
      My point exactly.
  - arctics 5y ago
    "Let's create a Palestinean state, ask all the Palestinians inside of Israel to move there" Aren't you guys building settlements there for the Jews only? I may be wrong but this is the last thing I remember about the West Bank, Palestinians are forced to leave.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  > I'm Jewish. I'm not a Zionist. It's way easier to be anti Zionist from the comfy U.S right? You get all the benefits of appearing super moral and progressive and none of the risks. What's it to you if Israelis are (again) thrown out to become refugees all over the place. You've got zero skin the game. For us Israeli Jews end of Zionism probably means being refugees somewhere (hopefully Europe will agree to take a big portion but who knows). Sure, some Israelis (not all, not even the majority) have European citizenships but we all see how lovely it is being Jewish in Europe. I mean, I'm all for the U.S to cease existing and become Indian - how does that sound? Give all the land back to the indigenous people and the underprivileged.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    I don't see how all of this explains the need for the settlements.
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      It doesn't. Why not advocate for the removal of settlements then? Do you advocate for China's destruction because they put settlements in Tibet? The settlements were a grave error imo, Israel already proved it can and will dismantle them (Gaza). It's up for the Palestinian Authority to become a partner in peace instead of advocating for the right of return. That's what this conflict is all about.
      - sndman 5y ago
        I think that even without the recent Human Rights Watch report calling Israel an Apartheid state, most of the world sees what's going on in the occupied territories and has come to the same conclusion. We've learned a lot from the history of South Africa. The right of return is a human right. Just admit that instead of planting trees over the destroyed villages (do a google search on "lubya" or "lydda" or any of the other 530 villages that were bulldozed). The fact is that the Israeli leadership has been lying to its citizens for 73 years. The land was cleansed of its indigenous Arab population to make a Jewish state viable. The is ethnic cleansing. Many of these refugees are still alive (like my parents). At some point, Israeli citizens will see it for what it is: a crime against humanity. So we need to just admit it and move on to the truth commissions and get on with creating a truly democratic state. The colonial settler movement is in decline. Just ask Ben and Jerry's.

That's a different conversation. And yes, I agree with you.

by 47nil 5y ago

That's a different conversation. And yes, I agree with you.

Actually, the conversation was Israel's use of a facial recognition program against a captive population. You deflected it by saying "well all countries do that" and conflated criticism of Israel with criticism of all Jews. I'm Jewish. I'm not a Zionist. You don't speak for us and it's frankly embarrassing to see discussion of modern day apartheid state shut down because "teacher teacher we didn't start it!"

47nil 5y ago
Alright then. Let's create a Palestinean state, ask all the Palestinians inside of Israel to move there, to be governed by their own elected government, and stop attacking Israel. Oh, wait... Yeah, no. You do understand that the so called "Apartheid" doesn't exists, right? If you ask the Israeli Arabs if they would move to "Palestine", the majority would tell you no. The Arabs living inside of Israel, not Gaza, and not the west bank, have the same rights, votes, representation in the Knesset (congress), free education, free healthcare, and the same rights to work than jews, Druze, christians, and the Bahai. If you have 90% of the terrorism coming from a specific place, you will monitor that. It has nothing to do with apartheid. And you saying this, specially as a jew, shows a complete ignorance for the subject at hand. I lived in Israel for 20 years. I lived in South Africa during the apartheid, I saw what that is. I also lived in South America during the Juntas and military governments. Israel is neither. People don't spend the time in Israel understanding this, or at least reading about it. Sorry, but it doesn't matter how much you scream or how much you can call me anything, truth is truth. Have a good one.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  > ask all the Palestinians inside of Israel to move there Why should they agree to this?
  - 47nil 5y ago
    My point exactly.
- arctics 5y ago
  "Let's create a Palestinean state, ask all the Palestinians inside of Israel to move there" Aren't you guys building settlements there for the Jews only? I may be wrong but this is the last thing I remember about the West Bank, Palestinians are forced to leave.
joelbluminator 5y ago
> I'm Jewish. I'm not a Zionist. It's way easier to be anti Zionist from the comfy U.S right? You get all the benefits of appearing super moral and progressive and none of the risks. What's it to you if Israelis are (again) thrown out to become refugees all over the place. You've got zero skin the game. For us Israeli Jews end of Zionism probably means being refugees somewhere (hopefully Europe will agree to take a big portion but who knows). Sure, some Israelis (not all, not even the majority) have European citizenships but we all see how lovely it is being Jewish in Europe. I mean, I'm all for the U.S to cease existing and become Indian - how does that sound? Give all the land back to the indigenous people and the underprivileged.
- helge9210 5y ago
  I don't see how all of this explains the need for the settlements.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    It doesn't. Why not advocate for the removal of settlements then? Do you advocate for China's destruction because they put settlements in Tibet? The settlements were a grave error imo, Israel already proved it can and will dismantle them (Gaza). It's up for the Palestinian Authority to become a partner in peace instead of advocating for the right of return. That's what this conflict is all about.
    - sndman 5y ago
      I think that even without the recent Human Rights Watch report calling Israel an Apartheid state, most of the world sees what's going on in the occupied territories and has come to the same conclusion. We've learned a lot from the history of South Africa. The right of return is a human right. Just admit that instead of planting trees over the destroyed villages (do a google search on "lubya" or "lydda" or any of the other 530 villages that were bulldozed). The fact is that the Israeli leadership has been lying to its citizens for 73 years. The land was cleansed of its indigenous Arab population to make a Jewish state viable. The is ethnic cleansing. Many of these refugees are still alive (like my parents). At some point, Israeli citizens will see it for what it is: a crime against humanity. So we need to just admit it and move on to the truth commissions and get on with creating a truly democratic state. The colonial settler movement is in decline. Just ask Ben and Jerry's.