6 ms·

I wonder, is it actually competition? Apple will never sell any of their Chips to OEM partners so they will have to make do with whatever AMD, Intel, nVidia, Qu

I wonder, is it actually competition? Apple will never sell any of their Chips to OEM partners so they will have to make do with whatever AMD, Intel, nVidia, Qualcomm, etc. sell. Will it actually lead to more people choosing a MacBook than any other Laptop? With these prices I‘m not so sure.

D13Fd 5y ago
Yes, it is competition. Whether people buy it immediately or not, the other CPU/GPU companies are going to take notice. Beyond that, the M1 directly replaced an Intel chip, and that Intel’s CEO has already said he wants to win back Apple’s business (as unlikely as that seems).
ksec 5y ago
>Will it actually lead to more people choosing a MacBook than any other Laptop? With these prices I‘m not so sure. Not MacBook Pro, but MacBook Air. The MacBook Air starts at $999. And if anyone has been paying a little more attention one may discover MBA discount is unusually high compared to previous Intel MBA. Education MBA M1 are going at $899 and in some cases $799. The lowest retail discount on MBA goes down to $800 on Amazon. Basically because the BOM cost advantage and margin on M1 MBA are higher. At this price M1 MBA are selling as fast as they could make them. And Apple could afford to lower the official price of MBA M1 to $899 once newer M2 MBA ( or MacBook ) are out. Compared to the PC industry, not only do they not have anything as fast, as good experience, their BOM cost are also higher due to Intel or AMD chip pricing. I think once the transition has settled, Apple will announce their 120M Mac active Mac user next year. While I made this predictions of BOM cost advantage way back in 2014, this actually makes me rather sad because PC has nothing left to fight the Mac. They have nothing on the roadmap. And Apple is no longer the same company as they were in 2014.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  94% of people aren't current college enrollees and aren't paying educational prices they are paying the prices listed at store.apple.com. Looking at store.apple.com the 999 model is a dog nobody should buy because its forever locked in at 8GB of non replacable RAM and it comes with an anemic 256GB of storage. The minimum configuration anyone ought to buy in 2021 comes in at $1400 for 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage or $1600 if you want to bump it up to 1TB. Meanwhile the average PC is bought for between $600 and $700 meaning half of people actually pay less even than that. Here is an example of a typical PC one can find at Walmart where an average user buys their tires, green beans, and their computers. https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-2021-New-Touchscreen-laptop-i3-1115G4-512GB-SSD-16GB-RAM-Multi-touch-enabled-UHD-Graphics-Type-C-USB-HDMI-Natural-silver-Windows-10-Pro/708897249 https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-2021-New-Touchscreen-laptop-i3... It comes with 16GB of RAM and 512GB storage for $649 or 1TB for $719. I do not herein assert that it is an equivalent machine its not. However it is a very typical PC. Here is another with 16GB of RAM but only 256GB of storage but its also only $449 and you wont have to close some applications before opening others partying like its 1998 with your windows CE portable machine. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gateway-15-6-FHD-Ultra-Slim-Notebook-GWTN156-1/309509930?athcpid=309509930&athpgid=AthenaItempage&athcgid=null&athznid=si&athieid=v0&athstid=CS004&athguid=7wY_8YaWaWPs7OBpqlP-zrmDuE6azzbV_tEf&athancid=null&athena=true&athbdg=L1600 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gateway-15-6-FHD-Ultra-Slim-Noteb... Yes its a gateway. Gives you a warm fuzzy right. The point is for the majority of PC laptop buyers the M1 macs even the economical models aren't competitors anymore than a Tesla is really competing for the same buyer as KIA even though the goods are absolutely in the same category. PC's are a largely a huge mass of very cheap machines with a minority that compete directly with apple.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Here's another data point. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories/zgbs/pc/ https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories/zg... #1, #2, and #5 are MacBook Airs. The only Windows PC in the top 50 is #39, and has 4GB RAM, and 128GB SSD. Although I really don't think that power users would always be better served with a 16GB RAM Walmart marketplace specials. RAM and storage space are important data points, but the types of machines made specifically for bargain-basement prices often sacrifice other important design features -- particularly anything qualitative. I have family that was recently screwed by one of these marketplace sellers. They bought one of these marketplace laptop with great specs, later to find out that it didn't ship with those specs from the manufacturer, the marketplace seller modified it with crap parts and relisted it. Now it has parts not subject to the manufacturer warranty and the performance of those parts is really bad.
    - ksec 5y ago
      And a Chromebook at #25 priced at $179. And that is at current MacBook Air price. There is no reason why a Macbook Air cant be $799, the same price as iPad Pro from a BOM cost prospective with same margin other than market positioning and segmentation. And most consumer dont actually care about spec. They want a computer that works. ( Actually most dont want one, they just have to buy one for different sort of reason ).
      - michaelmrose 5y ago
        There isn't a strong justification for pricing it so aggressively when this would drastically decrease their margin. They would be selling their profit to increase market share which is exactly the opposite of their usual strategy especially when demand is high and fab capacity at a premium. They might well be just trading in a higher profit for a lessor if they couldn't make more units than people would already buy at the higher price.
        ksec 5y ago
        Like I said, in the future time line. It is not "aggressive". It is the normal margin for Apple. Apple has kept their product margin relatively stable in the past decade. And I know their BOM cost by heart. The only situation where they dont go lower price is to introduce more features, mini LED, Pro Motion etc.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  That’s simply not true. MacBook air goes +$200 when you go 16GB from 8GB. And more when you move to 512GB disk from 256GB. These two are bare minimums for a laptop bought today I would say. So just because Apple shows $1000 for MacBook Air start price that’s underpowered even for today doesn’t make it a good purchase. And make no mistake - the 16GB (assuming you upgraded, of course right when you purchased) soon will start being less before long. Apple won’t let you do anything about it, except of course allowing you to buy the next MacBook Air.
  - CincinnatiMan 5y ago
    I have the base model M1 MBA and it works great as far as performance goes. I don’t do any development work on it, just the typical stuff of internet browsing, looking at photos, some TV/movie watching. I remember at the time the consensus was that performance of 8gb on the M1 MBA was equivalent to 16gb on a Windows machine. Something to do with the architecture of the M1 making memory swap more efficient or something like that. So I think you’re overstating the importance of 16gb and 512gb for the average consumer.
    - ksec 5y ago
      >So I think you’re overstating the importance of 16gb and 512gb for the average consumer. I dont think HN will ever understand anything about consumer market. Computing or not.
friedman23 5y ago
> With these prices I‘m not so sure. The prices are completely in line with other professional laptops such as dell xps line.
sharikous 5y ago
That kind of technology will leak through the whole industry. Either by hiring those very sought out CPU engineers, sharing processes and components, etc. Even if you cannot order OEM Apple Silicon chips it doesn't mean it won't directly change the whole industry. There is a significant percentage of people who are in the market for good laptops and that's enough market for companies like Intel to imitate Apple and strive to achieve their impressive benchmarks.
- traspler 5y ago
  I get the "trickle-down effect", new ideas, engineers, etc. tend to get around but I remain sceptical that this will lead to the same incredible perf leap in other products. The iPhone with it's chips has been around quite a while the Apple Watch a bit less so but Qualcomm's chips still seem significantly behind. If this is wrong please do correct me, this is just my observation.
  - sharikous 5y ago
    I do not really know but I would bet Samsung and Qualcomm are working really hard at their chips to match Apple. And sure Apple has a 2+ year lead, especially for the Apple Watch, but I am also pretty sure that said companies are trying hard to snatch some engineers from Apple. The great deal about ARM devices is not that they are "RISC". It's that they are open (as opposed to x86) and ARM does half of the work for you when you design the chips. If Apple is really careful they will maintain their lead but if not I give it 5 years maximum till they are outmatched

D13Fd 5y ago

Yes, it is competition. Whether people buy it immediately or not, the other CPU/GPU companies are going to take notice. Beyond that, the M1 directly replaced an Intel chip, and that Intel’s CEO has already said he wants to win back Apple’s business (as unlikely as that seems).

ksec 5y ago

>Will it actually lead to more people choosing a MacBook than any other Laptop? With these prices I‘m not so sure. Not MacBook Pro, but MacBook Air. The MacBook Air starts at $999. And if anyone has been paying a little more attention one may discover MBA discount is unusually high compared to previous Intel MBA. Education MBA M1 are going at $899 and in some cases $799. The lowest retail discount on MBA goes down to $800 on Amazon. Basically because the BOM cost advantage and margin on M1 MBA are higher. At this price M1 MBA are selling as fast as they could make them. And Apple could afford to lower the official price of MBA M1 to $899 once newer M2 MBA ( or MacBook ) are out. Compared to the PC industry, not only do they not have anything as fast, as good experience, their BOM cost are also higher due to Intel or AMD chip pricing. I think once the transition has settled, Apple will announce their 120M Mac active Mac user next year. While I made this predictions of BOM cost advantage way back in 2014, this actually makes me rather sad because PC has nothing left to fight the Mac. They have nothing on the roadmap. And Apple is no longer the same company as they were in 2014.

michaelmrose 5y ago
94% of people aren't current college enrollees and aren't paying educational prices they are paying the prices listed at store.apple.com. Looking at store.apple.com the 999 model is a dog nobody should buy because its forever locked in at 8GB of non replacable RAM and it comes with an anemic 256GB of storage. The minimum configuration anyone ought to buy in 2021 comes in at $1400 for 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage or $1600 if you want to bump it up to 1TB. Meanwhile the average PC is bought for between $600 and $700 meaning half of people actually pay less even than that. Here is an example of a typical PC one can find at Walmart where an average user buys their tires, green beans, and their computers. https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-2021-New-Touchscreen-laptop-i3-1115G4-512GB-SSD-16GB-RAM-Multi-touch-enabled-UHD-Graphics-Type-C-USB-HDMI-Natural-silver-Windows-10-Pro/708897249 https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-2021-New-Touchscreen-laptop-i3... It comes with 16GB of RAM and 512GB storage for $649 or 1TB for $719. I do not herein assert that it is an equivalent machine its not. However it is a very typical PC. Here is another with 16GB of RAM but only 256GB of storage but its also only $449 and you wont have to close some applications before opening others partying like its 1998 with your windows CE portable machine. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gateway-15-6-FHD-Ultra-Slim-Notebook-GWTN156-1/309509930?athcpid=309509930&athpgid=AthenaItempage&athcgid=null&athznid=si&athieid=v0&athstid=CS004&athguid=7wY_8YaWaWPs7OBpqlP-zrmDuE6azzbV_tEf&athancid=null&athena=true&athbdg=L1600 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gateway-15-6-FHD-Ultra-Slim-Noteb... Yes its a gateway. Gives you a warm fuzzy right. The point is for the majority of PC laptop buyers the M1 macs even the economical models aren't competitors anymore than a Tesla is really competing for the same buyer as KIA even though the goods are absolutely in the same category. PC's are a largely a huge mass of very cheap machines with a minority that compete directly with apple.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Here's another data point. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories/zgbs/pc/ https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories/zg... #1, #2, and #5 are MacBook Airs. The only Windows PC in the top 50 is #39, and has 4GB RAM, and 128GB SSD. Although I really don't think that power users would always be better served with a 16GB RAM Walmart marketplace specials. RAM and storage space are important data points, but the types of machines made specifically for bargain-basement prices often sacrifice other important design features -- particularly anything qualitative. I have family that was recently screwed by one of these marketplace sellers. They bought one of these marketplace laptop with great specs, later to find out that it didn't ship with those specs from the manufacturer, the marketplace seller modified it with crap parts and relisted it. Now it has parts not subject to the manufacturer warranty and the performance of those parts is really bad.
  - ksec 5y ago
    And a Chromebook at #25 priced at $179. And that is at current MacBook Air price. There is no reason why a Macbook Air cant be $799, the same price as iPad Pro from a BOM cost prospective with same margin other than market positioning and segmentation. And most consumer dont actually care about spec. They want a computer that works. ( Actually most dont want one, they just have to buy one for different sort of reason ).
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      There isn't a strong justification for pricing it so aggressively when this would drastically decrease their margin. They would be selling their profit to increase market share which is exactly the opposite of their usual strategy especially when demand is high and fab capacity at a premium. They might well be just trading in a higher profit for a lessor if they couldn't make more units than people would already buy at the higher price.
      - ksec 5y ago
        Like I said, in the future time line. It is not "aggressive". It is the normal margin for Apple. Apple has kept their product margin relatively stable in the past decade. And I know their BOM cost by heart. The only situation where they dont go lower price is to introduce more features, mini LED, Pro Motion etc.
crossroadsguy 5y ago
That’s simply not true. MacBook air goes +$200 when you go 16GB from 8GB. And more when you move to 512GB disk from 256GB. These two are bare minimums for a laptop bought today I would say. So just because Apple shows $1000 for MacBook Air start price that’s underpowered even for today doesn’t make it a good purchase. And make no mistake - the 16GB (assuming you upgraded, of course right when you purchased) soon will start being less before long. Apple won’t let you do anything about it, except of course allowing you to buy the next MacBook Air.
- CincinnatiMan 5y ago
  I have the base model M1 MBA and it works great as far as performance goes. I don’t do any development work on it, just the typical stuff of internet browsing, looking at photos, some TV/movie watching. I remember at the time the consensus was that performance of 8gb on the M1 MBA was equivalent to 16gb on a Windows machine. Something to do with the architecture of the M1 making memory swap more efficient or something like that. So I think you’re overstating the importance of 16gb and 512gb for the average consumer.
  - ksec 5y ago
    >So I think you’re overstating the importance of 16gb and 512gb for the average consumer. I dont think HN will ever understand anything about consumer market. Computing or not.

friedman23 5y ago

> With these prices I‘m not so sure. The prices are completely in line with other professional laptops such as dell xps line.

sharikous 5y ago

That kind of technology will leak through the whole industry. Either by hiring those very sought out CPU engineers, sharing processes and components, etc. Even if you cannot order OEM Apple Silicon chips it doesn't mean it won't directly change the whole industry. There is a significant percentage of people who are in the market for good laptops and that's enough market for companies like Intel to imitate Apple and strive to achieve their impressive benchmarks.

traspler 5y ago
I get the "trickle-down effect", new ideas, engineers, etc. tend to get around but I remain sceptical that this will lead to the same incredible perf leap in other products. The iPhone with it's chips has been around quite a while the Apple Watch a bit less so but Qualcomm's chips still seem significantly behind. If this is wrong please do correct me, this is just my observation.
- sharikous 5y ago
  I do not really know but I would bet Samsung and Qualcomm are working really hard at their chips to match Apple. And sure Apple has a 2+ year lead, especially for the Apple Watch, but I am also pretty sure that said companies are trying hard to snatch some engineers from Apple. The great deal about ARM devices is not that they are "RISC". It's that they are open (as opposed to x86) and ARM does half of the work for you when you design the chips. If Apple is really careful they will maintain their lead but if not I give it 5 years maximum till they are outmatched