5 ms·

Solar panels and CFCs in exoplanets? They are too confined to our current development stage here on Earth. Not that civilizations don't use them, ours does. But

by dsign 5y ago

Solar panels and CFCs in exoplanets? They are too confined to our current development stage here on Earth. Not that civilizations don't use them, ours does. But they are toys for the blink of an eye in cosmological time. The search makes more sense when it is for structures that, by their very function, are designed to last longer and span multiple stellar systems. Communication networks, and more precisely communication hubs next to dark objects moving in trajectories of low curvature--wandering planets and the like. If there are people in advanced alien civilizations, they don't travel in spaceships.

dave_sullivan 5y ago
I don't understand how everyone thinks we'll spread out across the universe when "going inward" kind of makes more sense. We can't go faster than light, but we can simulate things and we keep getting better at that. What if we never really leave and just turn our planet into a big computer so we can live any kind of existence we can imagine (but we can't leave to interfere with others and we can only ever see things around us that already happened). I think we're stuck here in some fundamental ways, and other aliens probably figured this out too so they're living in high density planet sized computers.
- atrus 5y ago
  Why not both?
- prox 5y ago
  Some might say we already done that, and here we are. A grand simulation.
- Kaibeezy 5y ago
  Diaspora is a hard science fiction novel by the Australian writer Greg Egan which first appeared in print in 1997. ... the citizens, intelligence as disembodied computer software running entirely within simulated reality-based communities known as polises. These represent the majority by far of "humanity" in the novel... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel) === Fall; or, Dodge in Hell is a 2019 speculative fiction novel by American author Neal Stephenson. The book explores mind uploading to the Cloud... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall;_or,_Dodge_in_Hell https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall;_or,_Dodge_in_Hell
- captn3m0 5y ago
  asteroids
- jl6 5y ago
  The speed of light isn’t a blocker if we can figure out how to live slower and longer (and maybe going inward is a part of learning to tolerate long stretches of time). If a lifespan was 1,000,000 years, a 40 year journey to alpha centauri at 10% the speed of light wouldn’t seem too long.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    I don't know if meat can last 1,000,000 years, but if we can get rid of the meat then maybe we'll be able to befriend that rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotation ago, wants to be friendly again.
    - me_me_me 5y ago
      > I don't know if meat can last 1,000,000 year It doesnt, you dont last even one of your lifetime. Almost every-cell in your body will be replaced around 10 times in your life. If you can hack body to repair itself (no ageing) time is no limit really.
- machiaweliczny 5y ago
  Going inward without physical protection/distribution won't work unless we can "live" without matter, are we humans then or spirits?
  - colordrops 5y ago
    Computers don't function without matter. You don't have to transfer your brain into anything. We don't transfer our brain (at least directly) into our children, and yet, after we die, humanity still survives. Sentient computers would in a way be our children.
dotancohen 5y ago
> If there are people in advanced alien civilizations, they don't travel in spaceships. They're not made of meat, so likely not limited to travel through C space.
rbanffy 5y ago
> If there are people in advanced alien civilizations, they don't travel in spaceships. I must point out that you start your argument by criticizing an assumption and then you make a big assumption. We don't know what an interstellar spaceship looks like. If we can build one and push it to 0.25c, we can reach the next star in 40 years, acceleration and braking included, and we are relatively fragile and short-lived constructs. Life support requirements for aliens could be anything, from a forest or an aquarium full of water to a computer running a simulated crew in a simulated environment, blueprints to start rebuilding bodies after they arrive being optional depending on their requirements to interact with the physical world. We really can't rule anything out, as their motivations, technologies, and requirements are not human.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  >forest or an aquarium full of water to a computer running a simulated crew in a simulated environment, blueprints to start rebuilding bodies after they arrive You make a big assumption that they are even organic. My best guess is that all organic life is ultimately displaced by AI. ....so the "ship" is the alien - not that the alien is IN the ship.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    In that case, the ship won’t need any life support.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  >> We really can't rule anything out, as their motivations, technologies, and requirements are not human. But the quest isn't to detect all alien life, just any. The really alien stuff, the stuff we cannot comprehend, we cannot detect. So we start with the sorts of things we might be able to detect. By doing so we have already made all sorts of assumptions and that is ok because it is the only way forwards. Yes, we might miss a civilization that does not live on a planet with an atmosphere, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking at atmosphere signatures.
  - 5y ago

by dsign 5y ago

dave_sullivan 5y ago

I don't understand how everyone thinks we'll spread out across the universe when "going inward" kind of makes more sense. We can't go faster than light, but we can simulate things and we keep getting better at that. What if we never really leave and just turn our planet into a big computer so we can live any kind of existence we can imagine (but we can't leave to interfere with others and we can only ever see things around us that already happened). I think we're stuck here in some fundamental ways, and other aliens probably figured this out too so they're living in high density planet sized computers.

atrus 5y ago
Why not both?
prox 5y ago
Some might say we already done that, and here we are. A grand simulation.
Kaibeezy 5y ago
Diaspora is a hard science fiction novel by the Australian writer Greg Egan which first appeared in print in 1997. ... the citizens, intelligence as disembodied computer software running entirely within simulated reality-based communities known as polises. These represent the majority by far of "humanity" in the novel... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel) === Fall; or, Dodge in Hell is a 2019 speculative fiction novel by American author Neal Stephenson. The book explores mind uploading to the Cloud... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall;_or,_Dodge_in_Hell https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall;_or,_Dodge_in_Hell
captn3m0 5y ago
asteroids
jl6 5y ago
The speed of light isn’t a blocker if we can figure out how to live slower and longer (and maybe going inward is a part of learning to tolerate long stretches of time). If a lifespan was 1,000,000 years, a 40 year journey to alpha centauri at 10% the speed of light wouldn’t seem too long.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  I don't know if meat can last 1,000,000 years, but if we can get rid of the meat then maybe we'll be able to befriend that rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotation ago, wants to be friendly again.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    > I don't know if meat can last 1,000,000 year It doesnt, you dont last even one of your lifetime. Almost every-cell in your body will be replaced around 10 times in your life. If you can hack body to repair itself (no ageing) time is no limit really.
machiaweliczny 5y ago
Going inward without physical protection/distribution won't work unless we can "live" without matter, are we humans then or spirits?
- colordrops 5y ago
  Computers don't function without matter. You don't have to transfer your brain into anything. We don't transfer our brain (at least directly) into our children, and yet, after we die, humanity still survives. Sentient computers would in a way be our children.

dotancohen 5y ago

> If there are people in advanced alien civilizations, they don't travel in spaceships. They're not made of meat, so likely not limited to travel through C space.

rbanffy 5y ago

> If there are people in advanced alien civilizations, they don't travel in spaceships. I must point out that you start your argument by criticizing an assumption and then you make a big assumption. We don't know what an interstellar spaceship looks like. If we can build one and push it to 0.25c, we can reach the next star in 40 years, acceleration and braking included, and we are relatively fragile and short-lived constructs. Life support requirements for aliens could be anything, from a forest or an aquarium full of water to a computer running a simulated crew in a simulated environment, blueprints to start rebuilding bodies after they arrive being optional depending on their requirements to interact with the physical world. We really can't rule anything out, as their motivations, technologies, and requirements are not human.

koheripbal 5y ago
>forest or an aquarium full of water to a computer running a simulated crew in a simulated environment, blueprints to start rebuilding bodies after they arrive You make a big assumption that they are even organic. My best guess is that all organic life is ultimately displaced by AI. ....so the "ship" is the alien - not that the alien is IN the ship.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  In that case, the ship won’t need any life support.
sandworm101 5y ago
>> We really can't rule anything out, as their motivations, technologies, and requirements are not human. But the quest isn't to detect all alien life, just any. The really alien stuff, the stuff we cannot comprehend, we cannot detect. So we start with the sorts of things we might be able to detect. By doing so we have already made all sorts of assumptions and that is ok because it is the only way forwards. Yes, we might miss a civilization that does not live on a planet with an atmosphere, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking at atmosphere signatures.
- 5y ago