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> so what (technically) is stopping a true E2E P2P platform? The fact that nobody really wants a true p2p platform: you don't want to lose all your stuff if yo

> so what (technically) is stopping a true E2E P2P platform? The fact that nobody really wants a true p2p platform: you don't want to lose all your stuff if you lose the device. It is clear that federated services like email are superior for most users bar some real hardnuts mindfixed on privacy.

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lxgr 5y ago
> The fact that nobody really wants a true p2p platform: you don't want to lose all your stuff if you lose the device. Why not provide encrypted backups to a personal cloud storage service? Even WhatsApp does it these days.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  I don't mind you doing it and showing us how it should be done. Ah, btw, how will a true p2p platform work on iOS? What entity will send you push notifications when there are messages for your device?
  - lxgr 5y ago
    End-to-end encrypted backups? Like this, for example (I personally don't trust the HSMs/password scheme, but it's optional): https://engineering.fb.com/2021/09/10/security/whatsapp-e2ee-backups/ https://engineering.fb.com/2021/09/10/security/whatsapp-e2ee... True P2P on iOS: No idea, I merely claimed that a lack of backup options is not the reason we don't have it.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      It's not just the lack of backups. It's a world of constant pain and worry about your only device, security keys, and safe storage and transfer of your data. Forgot password? Get new account. Lost a key? Get new account. Want to open your messages in a browser from a desktop computer? Welcome to a world of pain. Your device switched off? Then nobody can send you messages, because in 'true p2p' there are no relay servers who would store the data, waiting for you to connect. In practice, nobody wants any of that. The vast majority of users are perfectly happy (and for the right reasons) with federated and centralised services like email or WhatsApp/etc.
- agentdrtran 5y ago
  You are welcome to start this service at any time. It is a colossal technical undertaking. Good luck!

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lxgr 5y ago

> The fact that nobody really wants a true p2p platform: you don't want to lose all your stuff if you lose the device. Why not provide encrypted backups to a personal cloud storage service? Even WhatsApp does it these days.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
I don't mind you doing it and showing us how it should be done. Ah, btw, how will a true p2p platform work on iOS? What entity will send you push notifications when there are messages for your device?
- lxgr 5y ago
  End-to-end encrypted backups? Like this, for example (I personally don't trust the HSMs/password scheme, but it's optional): https://engineering.fb.com/2021/09/10/security/whatsapp-e2ee-backups/ https://engineering.fb.com/2021/09/10/security/whatsapp-e2ee... True P2P on iOS: No idea, I merely claimed that a lack of backup options is not the reason we don't have it.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    It's not just the lack of backups. It's a world of constant pain and worry about your only device, security keys, and safe storage and transfer of your data. Forgot password? Get new account. Lost a key? Get new account. Want to open your messages in a browser from a desktop computer? Welcome to a world of pain. Your device switched off? Then nobody can send you messages, because in 'true p2p' there are no relay servers who would store the data, waiting for you to connect. In practice, nobody wants any of that. The vast majority of users are perfectly happy (and for the right reasons) with federated and centralised services like email or WhatsApp/etc.
agentdrtran 5y ago
You are welcome to start this service at any time. It is a colossal technical undertaking. Good luck!