4 ms·

What about the right to be forgotten?

naniwaduni 5y ago
It's never been particularly practicable, nor frankly even a good idea to design around implementing.
toyg 5y ago
That's a modern pseudo-juridical invention that, tbh, I disagree with. The baseline should be that actions have consequences, and then you exclude certain specific areas (underage, exploited, etc).
- Veen 5y ago
  That's fine if the consequences are reasonable, but they are often not. The mob doesn't do proportionate responses. Those who fear the mob cannot be relied on to stand against it. The "right to be forgotten" aims to strike a balance between justified consequences and the modern-day Scarlet letter the web attaches to any percieved wrong-doer.
  - toyg 5y ago
    And it really misses the target. In practice, the main users of that "right" are seriously-bad guys - from pedophiles to serial fraudsters. It really should become a "right to be forgiven", with penalties for discrimination like we have for race and religion. This would also help with things like registers of convicted felons, which in practice are more disproportionately harmful than a few items in google cache.
    - blowski 5y ago
      > the main users of that "right" are seriously-bad guys Source? I recently read that it’s used a lot by young people wanting to remove embarrassing they or others added in their younger days. I’ve no idea to what extent either of you is right.
      - toyg 5y ago
        Every time I try to google local well-known fraudsters in the UK, where even the news article itself mentions previous well-reported scandals, all searches with the name of the guy will only return the google message about records having been hidden because of that. It's just insane. It's like walking into a library, pulling up a newspaper collection from 2001, and when you reach a certain day, all pages are censored or ripped out. How is that not utterly dystopic...? I agree that youth should be a special case, but in the general term it's just a Bad Idea imho. It's the actual Memory Hole, and not even in ironic terms.
        blowski 5y ago
        You're absolutely right to see a problem here, but the opposite is also true. Like with so many things now, the negative impact of some actions was mitigated in the past by the high cost (or effort) required to perform that action. It was still possible, but unfeasible in practice for all but the most committed. When the cost is reduced, suddenly the mitigation is no longer there, and thus the negative impacts become a lot more prevalent.
Thorrez 5y ago
Does right to be forgotten apply to public figures? I thought it only applied to people who aren't famous.
s17n 5y ago
Doesn't exist in America and hopefully it never will
kragen 5y ago
The "right to be forgotten" is an appallingly bad idea. It cannot survive the basic liberal rights that underpin peaceful coexistence.
dclowd9901 5y ago
Such a concept is tantamount to mind policing. I’m unsure how it is anything less than Orwellian.
bloak 5y ago
The "right to be forgotten" relates to personal data on a living person, not works of literature, unless, I suppose, it's biographical literature about people who are still alive.
andybak 5y ago
Isn't that usually about personal information rather than the a right to withdraw already released work? Doesn't seem a close fit to this situation.

It's never been particularly practicable, nor frankly even a good idea to design around implementing.

toyg 5y ago

That's a modern pseudo-juridical invention that, tbh, I disagree with. The baseline should be that actions have consequences, and then you exclude certain specific areas (underage, exploited, etc).

Veen 5y ago
That's fine if the consequences are reasonable, but they are often not. The mob doesn't do proportionate responses. Those who fear the mob cannot be relied on to stand against it. The "right to be forgotten" aims to strike a balance between justified consequences and the modern-day Scarlet letter the web attaches to any percieved wrong-doer.
- toyg 5y ago
  And it really misses the target. In practice, the main users of that "right" are seriously-bad guys - from pedophiles to serial fraudsters. It really should become a "right to be forgiven", with penalties for discrimination like we have for race and religion. This would also help with things like registers of convicted felons, which in practice are more disproportionately harmful than a few items in google cache.
  - blowski 5y ago
    > the main users of that "right" are seriously-bad guys Source? I recently read that it’s used a lot by young people wanting to remove embarrassing they or others added in their younger days. I’ve no idea to what extent either of you is right.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Every time I try to google local well-known fraudsters in the UK, where even the news article itself mentions previous well-reported scandals, all searches with the name of the guy will only return the google message about records having been hidden because of that. It's just insane. It's like walking into a library, pulling up a newspaper collection from 2001, and when you reach a certain day, all pages are censored or ripped out. How is that not utterly dystopic...? I agree that youth should be a special case, but in the general term it's just a Bad Idea imho. It's the actual Memory Hole, and not even in ironic terms.
      - blowski 5y ago
        You're absolutely right to see a problem here, but the opposite is also true. Like with so many things now, the negative impact of some actions was mitigated in the past by the high cost (or effort) required to perform that action. It was still possible, but unfeasible in practice for all but the most committed. When the cost is reduced, suddenly the mitigation is no longer there, and thus the negative impacts become a lot more prevalent.

Thorrez 5y ago

Does right to be forgotten apply to public figures? I thought it only applied to people who aren't famous.

s17n 5y ago

Doesn't exist in America and hopefully it never will

kragen 5y ago

The "right to be forgotten" is an appallingly bad idea. It cannot survive the basic liberal rights that underpin peaceful coexistence.

dclowd9901 5y ago

Such a concept is tantamount to mind policing. I’m unsure how it is anything less than Orwellian.

bloak 5y ago

The "right to be forgotten" relates to personal data on a living person, not works of literature, unless, I suppose, it's biographical literature about people who are still alive.

andybak 5y ago

Isn't that usually about personal information rather than the a right to withdraw already released work? Doesn't seem a close fit to this situation.