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In your story, you built a machine, and Linux didn’t work well on it at first. Later, it worked fine. Meanwhile, macOS never did and probably never will run on

In your story, you built a machine, and Linux didn’t work well on it at first. Later, it worked fine. Meanwhile, macOS never did and probably never will run on it. And you introduce this story as an illustration of how “Linux isn’t any better.” So, to borrow your words: Huh? What point are you trying to make?

josephg 5y ago
In my story linux didn't work well at first. Then with some time and work, it worked fine. An HP windows laptop didn't work well at first - but after I spent some time removing the HP bloatware, it worked "fine". This article says that mac laptops aren't working well because of memory leaks. But in a few months Apple will probably fix their software bugs and they'll work fine too. You said: > The [mac users] that don’t complain have low standards I agree with you. I'd go even further and say most users have low standards, because the out-of-the-box experience with most modern computers is pretty bad. Apple users should absolutely complain more when the out-of-the-box experience with their computer isn't perfect. We all should. Apple customers keep buying apple computers despite their issues not because we have low standards. We do it because the alternatives are even worse.
- leephillips 5y ago
  “most users have low standards” I think you’re probably right about this. It’s like we’ve been trained to have low expectations.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    As an avid linux user I can tell you. Linux users aren't "trained" to have low expectations. They are trained to be masochists that enjoy pain. The raw amount of configuration, fixes and setup work that has to go into making some linux distros work is astronomical. If nonlinux users are trained to have low expectations, Linux users are trained to rape themselves constantly.
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      I see your point of view a lot but I don't think configuring a system is that hard and I think it's preferable, compared to have tons of complexity preconfigured without your knowledge. Here's my experience with Arch Linux: 1) You install what you need to install 2) You read the doc and configure to your liking, learning what the system can and cannot do and how it works with everything else 3) Things generally work as documented and you go your merry way 4) When something break or doesn't work, you have the knowledge or a general idea of what to fix Compared to proprietary systems where there is no documentation and little configuration, when things break or misbehave you're essentially screwed. Will you wait for an official fix or look online for reverse engineers? You bought a black box and you can't just open it and fix it. I'd rather spend a day learning about my system during the installation and having it work for years, instead of buying yet another black box I can't open.
      - deltaonefour 5y ago
        >I'd rather spend a day learning about my system during the installation and having it work for years, instead of buying yet another black box I can't open. Learning linux doesn't take a day. Second off those black boxes statistically are more reliable than linux EVEN when you account for all the things you talked about. The reason for this is simple. Microsoft has a business advantage and unfairly strong arms hardware manufacturers to make their stuff work with windows. This unfair advantage makes the windows user experience better and more reliable than GNU linux whos' developers constantly have to play catch up with hardware.
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    It's is sad isn't it? In the last 20 years PC hardware has become ridiculously faster - and yet the user experience seems to have changed little. I saw an article ages ago whereby Microsoft apparently had a dependencies approval gateway. If you made any change based on Windows you had to remove/reduce your dependencies or make a good case for not doing so. I was hoping that would catch on.
deltaonefour 5y ago
The point he's trying to make is linux on a Ryzen isn't as good as MacOS on an M1. The user experience is inferior. That is his point and his point is fact. Hope you understand now.
- emkoemko 5y ago
  user experience is inferior? how so? what nonsense, i have heard countless stories on dumb things Apple forces on its users while on Linux you can just use Vulkan... Imagine if your app can't contact Apple servers they don't launch or take minutes to open...and when they do work they are recording information... why on earth do people still use closed source software. Now we have to deal with Safari crap... like we used to deal with IE5, having to have workarounds for browser standards Apple refuses to follow or implement.
  - ricardobayes 5y ago
    Don't waste your breath, let them be 'happy' in their little cult. I think Apple users are often mad because subconsciously they know they are taken a fool.
    - saithir 5y ago
      Feels super ironic you choose to describe Apple users as a "cult" in a reply to a guy that sneaks his "Safari is the new IE5" in every response... ;)
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      It's not a cult. I use all three operating systems and I'm highly proficient using linux. My distro of choice is Manjaro and NixOS and I have a lot of experience with debian and ubuntu as well. Each operating system has benefits and downsides. For user experience linux is definitively the worst. Definitively. The differences are so large that it's almost comical how someone on this planet can't see the difference. If you can't see this then you are the one that is part of a cult.
  - josephg 5y ago

josephg 5y ago

In my story linux didn't work well at first. Then with some time and work, it worked fine. An HP windows laptop didn't work well at first - but after I spent some time removing the HP bloatware, it worked "fine". This article says that mac laptops aren't working well because of memory leaks. But in a few months Apple will probably fix their software bugs and they'll work fine too. You said: > The [mac users] that don’t complain have low standards I agree with you. I'd go even further and say most users have low standards, because the out-of-the-box experience with most modern computers is pretty bad. Apple users should absolutely complain more when the out-of-the-box experience with their computer isn't perfect. We all should. Apple customers keep buying apple computers despite their issues not because we have low standards. We do it because the alternatives are even worse.

leephillips 5y ago
“most users have low standards” I think you’re probably right about this. It’s like we’ve been trained to have low expectations.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  As an avid linux user I can tell you. Linux users aren't "trained" to have low expectations. They are trained to be masochists that enjoy pain. The raw amount of configuration, fixes and setup work that has to go into making some linux distros work is astronomical. If nonlinux users are trained to have low expectations, Linux users are trained to rape themselves constantly.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    I see your point of view a lot but I don't think configuring a system is that hard and I think it's preferable, compared to have tons of complexity preconfigured without your knowledge. Here's my experience with Arch Linux: 1) You install what you need to install 2) You read the doc and configure to your liking, learning what the system can and cannot do and how it works with everything else 3) Things generally work as documented and you go your merry way 4) When something break or doesn't work, you have the knowledge or a general idea of what to fix Compared to proprietary systems where there is no documentation and little configuration, when things break or misbehave you're essentially screwed. Will you wait for an official fix or look online for reverse engineers? You bought a black box and you can't just open it and fix it. I'd rather spend a day learning about my system during the installation and having it work for years, instead of buying yet another black box I can't open.
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      >I'd rather spend a day learning about my system during the installation and having it work for years, instead of buying yet another black box I can't open. Learning linux doesn't take a day. Second off those black boxes statistically are more reliable than linux EVEN when you account for all the things you talked about. The reason for this is simple. Microsoft has a business advantage and unfairly strong arms hardware manufacturers to make their stuff work with windows. This unfair advantage makes the windows user experience better and more reliable than GNU linux whos' developers constantly have to play catch up with hardware.
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  It's is sad isn't it? In the last 20 years PC hardware has become ridiculously faster - and yet the user experience seems to have changed little. I saw an article ages ago whereby Microsoft apparently had a dependencies approval gateway. If you made any change based on Windows you had to remove/reduce your dependencies or make a good case for not doing so. I was hoping that would catch on.

deltaonefour 5y ago

The point he's trying to make is linux on a Ryzen isn't as good as MacOS on an M1. The user experience is inferior. That is his point and his point is fact. Hope you understand now.

emkoemko 5y ago
user experience is inferior? how so? what nonsense, i have heard countless stories on dumb things Apple forces on its users while on Linux you can just use Vulkan... Imagine if your app can't contact Apple servers they don't launch or take minutes to open...and when they do work they are recording information... why on earth do people still use closed source software. Now we have to deal with Safari crap... like we used to deal with IE5, having to have workarounds for browser standards Apple refuses to follow or implement.
- ricardobayes 5y ago
  Don't waste your breath, let them be 'happy' in their little cult. I think Apple users are often mad because subconsciously they know they are taken a fool.
  - saithir 5y ago
    Feels super ironic you choose to describe Apple users as a "cult" in a reply to a guy that sneaks his "Safari is the new IE5" in every response... ;)
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    It's not a cult. I use all three operating systems and I'm highly proficient using linux. My distro of choice is Manjaro and NixOS and I have a lot of experience with debian and ubuntu as well. Each operating system has benefits and downsides. For user experience linux is definitively the worst. Definitively. The differences are so large that it's almost comical how someone on this planet can't see the difference. If you can't see this then you are the one that is part of a cult.
- josephg 5y ago