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> The user will look at the programming language and think that what is the easiest thing to do is the best thing to do Hard disagree that this is what we shou

> The user will look at the programming language and think that what is the easiest thing to do is the best thing to do Hard disagree that this is what we should cater to. Programmers should also know the ecosystem they are working in. Just because you learned python with really long chains of method calls, doesn’t mean you should use the same style in Java… though it’s “easy” because that’s what you are used to doing.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Just because you learned python with really long chains of method calls, Long chains of method calls are no more idiomatic in Python than Java to start with (Ruby tends toward fluent style, but Python doesn't.)
lmm 5y ago
If you know a way to attract only good programmers to your ecosystem, great. Most of us have to design systems to handle the way the average programmer will use them. It's easier to build a language that nudges mediocre programmers in the right direction than to make those people spend more time and effort learning the "right thing".
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  Also enough good programmers. You could have the most perfect programming language in the world, but if not enough people know it, it's not going to get deployed and get into the world. JS is not around because it's some paragon of programming language, it is just smashing everything else frontend wise in terms of developer numbers.
  - phist_mcgee 5y ago
    "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses" Bjarne Stroustrup
thrower123 5y ago
I have seen a weird emphasis lately in the dotnet world of trying to mimic the semantics of node or python by sweeping complexity under the rug with syntactic sugar, in the name of making the platform more minimal and welcoming to developers coming from those ecosystems. I'm not much of a fan, because you still have to deal with how asp.net works once you build anything serious, and now that isn't something the quickstart tutorials expose you to.
- weq 5y ago
  asp.net was closed source, asp.net core was open source. if by sweeping under the rug you mean opening up all there source code to the community to contribute too? Sure, they are doing that, go read it and get educated! Or do you mean async/await? (dont use it - i prefer observables). as someone who was a C programmer that discovered Java then worked full time in C# for 15yrs.... i feel like the snubby nosed C guys who think pureness is the only way are likely hailing webassembly over JS and wouldnt accept anything less. in reality, if you bring C near the web, you ARE the problem, not the solution. Different languages power different parts the technology world. Except your place in the ecosystem - instead of wasting energy wagging your fingers with angst at the others.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    What in the world are you talking about?

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Just because you learned python with really long chains of method calls, Long chains of method calls are no more idiomatic in Python than Java to start with (Ruby tends toward fluent style, but Python doesn't.)

lmm 5y ago

If you know a way to attract only good programmers to your ecosystem, great. Most of us have to design systems to handle the way the average programmer will use them. It's easier to build a language that nudges mediocre programmers in the right direction than to make those people spend more time and effort learning the "right thing".

bobthepanda 5y ago
Also enough good programmers. You could have the most perfect programming language in the world, but if not enough people know it, it's not going to get deployed and get into the world. JS is not around because it's some paragon of programming language, it is just smashing everything else frontend wise in terms of developer numbers.
- phist_mcgee 5y ago
  "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses" Bjarne Stroustrup

thrower123 5y ago

I have seen a weird emphasis lately in the dotnet world of trying to mimic the semantics of node or python by sweeping complexity under the rug with syntactic sugar, in the name of making the platform more minimal and welcoming to developers coming from those ecosystems. I'm not much of a fan, because you still have to deal with how asp.net works once you build anything serious, and now that isn't something the quickstart tutorials expose you to.

weq 5y ago
asp.net was closed source, asp.net core was open source. if by sweeping under the rug you mean opening up all there source code to the community to contribute too? Sure, they are doing that, go read it and get educated! Or do you mean async/await? (dont use it - i prefer observables). as someone who was a C programmer that discovered Java then worked full time in C# for 15yrs.... i feel like the snubby nosed C guys who think pureness is the only way are likely hailing webassembly over JS and wouldnt accept anything less. in reality, if you bring C near the web, you ARE the problem, not the solution. Different languages power different parts the technology world. Except your place in the ecosystem - instead of wasting energy wagging your fingers with angst at the others.
- thrower123 5y ago
  What in the world are you talking about?