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> It doesn't matter what the truth is at this point because the majority of scientist have demonstrated they are massive cowards (...) Before you go on attacki

by nuerow 5y ago

> It doesn't matter what the truth is at this point because the majority of scientist have demonstrated they are massive cowards (...) Before you go on attacking others for being cowards, what would you do if you started receiving death threats because you chose to speak publiy about an issue which an extremist political movement frowns upon? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02757-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02757-3

jjeaff 5y ago
And what about if people were calling your spouse and kids with death threats? Which is also something that is happening.
- throwntoday 5y ago
  If you don't possess some means of defending your family from real threats, you've already failed at your job. I understand HN leans left, but buy guns and learn to use them. The police will not be there to help you when you need it.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    That's ridiculous. Like saying, hey poking that bear is no big deal because I have a gun. Threats alone are enough to make life miserable. Having an arsenal of guns will be of little comfort to your family.
    - throwntoday 5y ago
      That your mind equates speaking freely to poking a bear says a lot. What makes you feel safe? Someone else being paid by your taxes to have the arsenal of guns?
      - nuerow 5y ago
        > That your mind equates speaking freely to poking a bear says a lot. Yes, it does speak volumes on the problem the US is facing with its authoritarian, anti-intellectual, proto-fascist political movements. The science community should be free from persecution just because extremists have a hard time dealing with inconvenient info. > What makes you feel safe? Personally I feel safe when I don't have terrorists threatening me and my family with violence and murder just because I pointed the fact that vaccines work. It seems academia shares this opinion with me.
        throwntoday 5y ago
        >vaccines work Which ones? The covid-19 ones? Their efficacy is waning at best. Multiple nations with >80% vaccination rate were still dealing with outbreaks last I checked. And before you talk mortality/hospitalization rates, those are down across the board, and clearly would have gone down regardless. Science is being attacked by both sides. When I say they are being cowards, I mean that they have let 100 years of knowledge go out the window. Efficacy of masks was well understood pre-2020, and a vaccine actually stopped you from getting a virus pre-2020. Try stating that cloth masks do nothing but embolden people to partake in more risky behavior. And that perhaps it was a bad idea to rush out a vaccine given what we know about doing that (see: dengue fever). When scientist are too scared to admit ADE is a real possibility, they have put their paycheck before the safety of humanity.
        jjeaff 5y ago
        The current covid vaccines are some of the most efficacious vaccines we have ever had. Even with efficacy waning due to variants, they are still very effective. And no, not all vaccines prevent infection. It has long been well understood in immunology that some vaccines do not prevent infection but rather poor outcomes. The vaccine reduces level and length of infectivity by anywhere between 50% and 80% depending on which study and which variant. The anti COVID vaccine rhetoric is directly responsible for the lives of hundreds of thousands. And it may yet lead to many more.
        phero_cnstrcts 5y ago
    - keneda7 5y ago
      There are also a ton of ways to ruin someone's life without violence. A gun will do nothing to stop those.
throwntoday 5y ago
Every faux pas will earn you a death threat these days. They are trite and meaningless. Taking anyone on the far right/left seriously is like giving in to a child throwing a tantrum. People need to stop being so spineless and develop some convictions. We are regressing to a point where people are afraid to exercise their freedom of speech.

by nuerow 5y ago

jjeaff 5y ago

And what about if people were calling your spouse and kids with death threats? Which is also something that is happening.

throwntoday 5y ago
If you don't possess some means of defending your family from real threats, you've already failed at your job. I understand HN leans left, but buy guns and learn to use them. The police will not be there to help you when you need it.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  That's ridiculous. Like saying, hey poking that bear is no big deal because I have a gun. Threats alone are enough to make life miserable. Having an arsenal of guns will be of little comfort to your family.
  - throwntoday 5y ago
    That your mind equates speaking freely to poking a bear says a lot. What makes you feel safe? Someone else being paid by your taxes to have the arsenal of guns?
    - nuerow 5y ago
      > That your mind equates speaking freely to poking a bear says a lot. Yes, it does speak volumes on the problem the US is facing with its authoritarian, anti-intellectual, proto-fascist political movements. The science community should be free from persecution just because extremists have a hard time dealing with inconvenient info. > What makes you feel safe? Personally I feel safe when I don't have terrorists threatening me and my family with violence and murder just because I pointed the fact that vaccines work. It seems academia shares this opinion with me.
      - throwntoday 5y ago
        >vaccines work Which ones? The covid-19 ones? Their efficacy is waning at best. Multiple nations with >80% vaccination rate were still dealing with outbreaks last I checked. And before you talk mortality/hospitalization rates, those are down across the board, and clearly would have gone down regardless. Science is being attacked by both sides. When I say they are being cowards, I mean that they have let 100 years of knowledge go out the window. Efficacy of masks was well understood pre-2020, and a vaccine actually stopped you from getting a virus pre-2020. Try stating that cloth masks do nothing but embolden people to partake in more risky behavior. And that perhaps it was a bad idea to rush out a vaccine given what we know about doing that (see: dengue fever). When scientist are too scared to admit ADE is a real possibility, they have put their paycheck before the safety of humanity.
        jjeaff 5y ago
        The current covid vaccines are some of the most efficacious vaccines we have ever had. Even with efficacy waning due to variants, they are still very effective. And no, not all vaccines prevent infection. It has long been well understood in immunology that some vaccines do not prevent infection but rather poor outcomes. The vaccine reduces level and length of infectivity by anywhere between 50% and 80% depending on which study and which variant. The anti COVID vaccine rhetoric is directly responsible for the lives of hundreds of thousands. And it may yet lead to many more.
        phero_cnstrcts 5y ago
  - keneda7 5y ago
    There are also a ton of ways to ruin someone's life without violence. A gun will do nothing to stop those.

throwntoday 5y ago

Every faux pas will earn you a death threat these days. They are trite and meaningless. Taking anyone on the far right/left seriously is like giving in to a child throwing a tantrum. People need to stop being so spineless and develop some convictions. We are regressing to a point where people are afraid to exercise their freedom of speech.