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Pollution doesn't happen because some "top 1%" want it, it happens because it is a byproduct of goods and services consumed by all of us. A small tax won't cha

Pollution doesn't happen because some "top 1%" want it, it happens because it is a byproduct of goods and services consumed by all of us. A small tax won't change behavior, but a large tax will impact consumer prices of the relevant goods. Who do you think the "top 1% of polluters" are with respect to greenhouse gases? If USA adds a heavy tax to imports from Saudi Aramco and other oil companies, gas prices will jump and that will be the "unwilling change to lifestyle" that voters will complain about. If Coal India, the world's largest manufacturer of coal, gets heavily taxed then people's electricity costs will rise significantly and they will riot. If you tax producers of carbon-heavy commodities like concrete and steel, the tax will directly be passed on to those using concrete and steel, that's how commodities work. The same applies for all other industries relying on carbon emissions - to significantly reduce usage, the taxes need to be so high that people actually can't afford these "carbon-heavy" services any more and start using them much less. It's not just about the willingness to voluntarily unilaterally change your own lifestyle, it's about the willingness to tolerate your government implementing measures that de facto force you (and others in your country) to change your lifestyles. While, as the article states, "Most (76%) of those surveyed across the 10 countries said they would accept stricter environmental rules and regulations", I believe that this is said with an implicit assumption that these stricter environmental rules and regulations will mostly affect "someone else" i.e. "top 1% polluters" without requiring any noticeable change in the goods and services they use.

dane-pgp 5y ago
As a reasonable starting point, the "top 1%" wouldn't be the companies that sell products that most people need (like cars and electricity), it would be the consumers that use vastly more resources than the average consumer. So, for example, if the average person flies N miles per year, then add an extra tax to the people who fly 10xN miles. If the average person uses N joules of gas to heat their home, then add an extra tax to the people who use 10xN joules. However, there are going to be cases where it makes sense to tax cheap-but-polluting products to give a dividend to help people buy more-expensive but less-polluting products, even if that means that prices go up slightly. That's just capturing the externalities of the polluting products, though.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  Okay, I think I understand your idea - essentially to impose nonlinear costs to consumption of "carbon-heavy" goods and services, so that someone who flies 10xN miles pays much more than 10x of tax. It would be interesting and useful if it worked, however, I'm sceptical of this working - in essence, while "linear" taxes can be relatively easily (there still are difficulties, especially internationally) levied at any point e.g. manufacture, import, sale or use, anonymously, no matter who or how consumes the product. However, having such a "nonlinear" tax is quite hard to administer effectively since it requires taxing at the point of use, tracking all points of sale to the specific individuals, aggregating them (if the person flies N miles per year from many different companies), and preventing transfers of that thing between people and/or using proxies. I don't think that I have seen nonlinear consumption taxes implemented in practice anywhere; the largest nonlinearity I have seen is exemptions where some ways of circumventing the tax are explicitly permitted for small, limited quantities. For core aspects of carbon emissions - namely, emissions from burning fossil fuels either in cars or heating homes - that would essentially require individual registration of fuel purchases; IMHO that would be treated as quite invasive; for the airline example you mention, this would require shifting the airline pricing so that the price is dependent on which person will be flying (beyond mere name, since names are not unique), which would be a major change in all the process of how airline tickets are booked worldwide.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    I was going to say that the administration of this might be difficult, so I completely accept your points above. The reason I chose flights and home heating specifically was that they are some of the easiest to administer, since governments already track which unique individuals are buying which flights, and home heating is naturally tied to an address (although I suppose someone might own a second home, with the gas bill paid in their spouse's name). For something like car travel, we may (unfortunately) reach a point where everyone's journeys are tracked, or at least where odometer readings have to be regularly submitted to the government. It wouldn't be too hard for the government to aggregate those numbers by registered owner, but it does assume that there is a fixed conversion between miles travelled and CO2 emitted, which breaks down if synthetic fuel becomes an option.

dane-pgp 5y ago

As a reasonable starting point, the "top 1%" wouldn't be the companies that sell products that most people need (like cars and electricity), it would be the consumers that use vastly more resources than the average consumer. So, for example, if the average person flies N miles per year, then add an extra tax to the people who fly 10xN miles. If the average person uses N joules of gas to heat their home, then add an extra tax to the people who use 10xN joules. However, there are going to be cases where it makes sense to tax cheap-but-polluting products to give a dividend to help people buy more-expensive but less-polluting products, even if that means that prices go up slightly. That's just capturing the externalities of the polluting products, though.

PeterisP 5y ago
Okay, I think I understand your idea - essentially to impose nonlinear costs to consumption of "carbon-heavy" goods and services, so that someone who flies 10xN miles pays much more than 10x of tax. It would be interesting and useful if it worked, however, I'm sceptical of this working - in essence, while "linear" taxes can be relatively easily (there still are difficulties, especially internationally) levied at any point e.g. manufacture, import, sale or use, anonymously, no matter who or how consumes the product. However, having such a "nonlinear" tax is quite hard to administer effectively since it requires taxing at the point of use, tracking all points of sale to the specific individuals, aggregating them (if the person flies N miles per year from many different companies), and preventing transfers of that thing between people and/or using proxies. I don't think that I have seen nonlinear consumption taxes implemented in practice anywhere; the largest nonlinearity I have seen is exemptions where some ways of circumventing the tax are explicitly permitted for small, limited quantities. For core aspects of carbon emissions - namely, emissions from burning fossil fuels either in cars or heating homes - that would essentially require individual registration of fuel purchases; IMHO that would be treated as quite invasive; for the airline example you mention, this would require shifting the airline pricing so that the price is dependent on which person will be flying (beyond mere name, since names are not unique), which would be a major change in all the process of how airline tickets are booked worldwide.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  I was going to say that the administration of this might be difficult, so I completely accept your points above. The reason I chose flights and home heating specifically was that they are some of the easiest to administer, since governments already track which unique individuals are buying which flights, and home heating is naturally tied to an address (although I suppose someone might own a second home, with the gas bill paid in their spouse's name). For something like car travel, we may (unfortunately) reach a point where everyone's journeys are tracked, or at least where odometer readings have to be regularly submitted to the government. It wouldn't be too hard for the government to aggregate those numbers by registered owner, but it does assume that there is a fixed conversion between miles travelled and CO2 emitted, which breaks down if synthetic fuel becomes an option.