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I have no idea what to believe anymore. Vaccine prevents covid (e.g. death and major injury). Somehow vaccinated people are scared of unvaccinated or vaccinate

I have no idea what to believe anymore. Vaccine prevents covid (e.g. death and major injury). Somehow vaccinated people are scared of unvaccinated or vaccinated-but-unmasked people. Huh? Then, all schools in US are open to kids who cannot even be vaccinated (this is since a few months back). If you point that out, people will counter back with covid doesn't impact kids. Well, okay? We try too hard to use unvaccinated as a scapegoat of the bad crisis management. Do you remember how Fauci undermined all masks in the beginning? I do. Fauci still try to pin it on unvaccinated when schools are still open..

schwartzworld 5y ago
> Somehow vaccinated people are scared of unvaccinated or vaccinated-but-unmasked people I can't speak for everyone, but even with a vaccine I can still transmit covid to my young children. I'll breathe easier once they are vaccinated too. > Then, all schools in US are open to kids who cannot even be vaccinated There are other factors besides COVID. Quarantine was not good for our kids, and we made the decision to send them back too school when we saw how much they were suffering due to lack of socialization. Additionally, working with kids at home was next to impossible. We are taking a calculated risk sending them back because the bills, unfortunately, do not pay themselves. It was not an easy decision.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  We are comparing that with kids dying from covid or having long covid, right? I suppose dead kids is cheaper than working with kids at home. That is an absurd decision.
  - nuerow 5y ago
    > That is an absurd decision. Your decision is absurd because that was exactly why you chose to set your strawman like that. If you take a step back and force yourself to take a honest and reasonable look at what the OP really said, you'll quickly understand that all caring parents, even when considering that the average children's risk of serious illness is relatively low, do have a high risk aversion regarding their well-being. Therefore, they breathe easier if their kids' immune system is well trained and prepared to handle an infection, which is precisely what you get when you're vaccinated.
    - ergocoder 5y ago
      > the average children's risk of serious illness is relatively low There you go. As I mentioned, when pointing out about school reopening, now covid isn't a huge deal. But unvaccinated 20-29 years old is like the biggest deal ever.
      - schwartzworld 5y ago
        Nobody knows what the long-term effects of covid in developing kids could be. I'm not worried about them dying of covid, but having their lives altered. > But unvaccinated 20-29 years old is like the biggest deal ever Don't know exactly what you're referring to since all the unvaxxed people I know are old, but it's irresponsible not to get it.
- helge9210 5y ago
  > I'll breathe easier once they are vaccinated too What if vaccination won't help to reduce your anxiety?
KyeRussell 5y ago
Honestly it just sounds like you’ve bought into the politics of it all. This is (mostly) a scientific issue, and inherent in that is the fact that the body of knowledge changes as a result of new observations. > If you point that out, people will counter back with covid doesn't impact kids. Well, okay? Who is “people”? Are you using a consistent source? If your point is that people have different understandings of appropriate COVID responses, then I guess I agree, but I don’t think that that’s the point that you’re trying to make. More to the point, I can’t see how any government response could combat the fact that in 2021 everyone is an expert and disinformation is rife. This is a pre-existing condition.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  Majority of people agree with school opening. Therefore, covid is seen as not a big deal. Because if covid is a huge deal, we wouldn't trade dead kids with educating kids. Being alive would almost always come first
  - bumpersstickers 5y ago
    The obvious conclusion is that it’s total bullshit: the two mechanisms driving this are “I want to keep working from home.” AND “I am not an individual, therefore no one else is.” THEREFORE “Blah blah blah lies and crap”
  - nuerow 5y ago
    >.Majority of people agree with school opening. Therefore, covid is seen as not a big deal. COVID-19 is not the big deal it was a few months ago because back then vaccine rollout barely started. Right now, those who still haven't got the jab either can't take it yet or are outright refusing to take it. Meanwhile, children can't be vaccinated but enjoy a low risk of developing serious illness. Given the scenario, it was necessary to evaluate the risk of deciding whether to impose a lockdown onto the school population, which would be largely incoherent and disproportionate to the risk, or returning to school while enforcing basic and low-effort health and safety measures, such as wearing masks and respect social distancing. Most of the world, if not all, chose to resume the school year with students returning to school.
Spivak 5y ago
I think you’re talking about the opinions of two different groups which is why they conflict. I’m fully vaxxed plus a booster and I don’t really want to be around unmasked unvaxxed people if I can help it. Like the vaccine isn’t magic, the effectiveness drops over time and more exposures compounds the risk. There’s zero gain to be around a high risk group, especially when it’s so easy to avoid right now. And I still wear a mask and encourage others to as well (not that it matters because there are still mandates) because I don’t want to accidentally be an asymptotic carrier to someone, especially someone unvaccinated — I have friends and family with weak immune systems and kids. Wearing a mask costs me nothing, especially now that it’s cold and keeps my face warm, and might do some good. I also think it is monumentally stupid that schools around here opened. Sure yeah, pack kids in poorly ventilated rooms for 8 hours a day, nothing bad will happen there.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  The question now is for how long we will need to keep prevent weakimmune people. Didn't they have this exact problem before covid with 1000 other diseases? At this point, it seems weak immune people are weaponized.
  - brandon272 5y ago
    > The question now is for how long we will need to keep prevent weakimmune people. Why must a timeline be put on it? The people asking "how long do we need to do this" kind of remind me of the kids in the back seat on a long trip asking every 10 minutes "are we there yet?" It's a global pandemic the likes the which no living generation has witnessed before. No one can tell you the future. Anyone putting a timeline on it is giving you their best guess, not a guarantee. I understand that is mentally and emotionally tough to deal with for a lot of people, but that's the sober reality of our current situation. We have vaccines (miraculously) but only a partially vaccinated planet. We have promising therapeutics on the horizon (see last week's news about Pfizer's new drug), but we are many months or years away from them being available as ubiquitously as we need them to be. > Didn't they have this exact problem before covid with 1000 other diseases? That were as 1) widespread, 2) severe and 3) as contagious as COVID-19? I can't think of any.
nuerow 5y ago
> Vaccine prevents covid (e.g. death and major injury). Somehow vaccinated people are scared of unvaccinated or vaccinated-but-unmasked people. Huh? You need to get your story straight. Things are quite simple as easy to understand once you take an honest look at the issue. For instance: * The current generation of COVID-19 vaccines trains the immune system to have a fighting chance against COVID-19 and are effective at practically eliminating the risk of serious illness, but they do not prevent infection or spread. * Some people cannot take the vaccine, such as the case of pregnant women until recently. Others do continue to be at risk even after taking the vaccine such as those plagued with comorbidities. See Colin Powell. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/colin-powell-suffered-from-a-cancer-that-makes-covid-vaccine-less-effective.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/colin-powell-suffered-from-a... * The risk of spawning a new strain that is not handled by the vaccine is proportional to the number of infections, thus contributing to it's spread endangers us all. See how the Delta variant was spawned in India. https://www.wsj.com/articles/rising-covid-19-breakthrough-cases-hinder-efforts-to-control-virus-11636191003 https://www.wsj.com/articles/rising-covid-19-breakthrough-ca... This is widely known by anyone who honestly cares about the subject and did a cursory search on the topic. In my case, the local vaccination drive distributed a leaflet explaining everything. Is any of this info new to you?
- ergocoder 5y ago
  From your reasons, opening school is extremely unsafe since kids cannot be vaccinated. So, what is with the contradictory actions?
  - nuerow 5y ago
    > From your reasons, opening in school is extremely unsafe since kids cannot be vaccinated. Taken from: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/questions-answers/questions-answers-school-transmission#:~:text=Most%20children%20do%20not%20develop,while%20they%20are%20infectious https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/questions-answers/que.... "Most children do not develop symptoms when infected with the virus, or they develop a very mild form of the disease. However, research has shown that children can become infected, and can spread the virus to other children and adults while they are infectious."

schwartzworld 5y ago

> Somehow vaccinated people are scared of unvaccinated or vaccinated-but-unmasked people I can't speak for everyone, but even with a vaccine I can still transmit covid to my young children. I'll breathe easier once they are vaccinated too. > Then, all schools in US are open to kids who cannot even be vaccinated There are other factors besides COVID. Quarantine was not good for our kids, and we made the decision to send them back too school when we saw how much they were suffering due to lack of socialization. Additionally, working with kids at home was next to impossible. We are taking a calculated risk sending them back because the bills, unfortunately, do not pay themselves. It was not an easy decision.

ergocoder 5y ago
We are comparing that with kids dying from covid or having long covid, right? I suppose dead kids is cheaper than working with kids at home. That is an absurd decision.
- nuerow 5y ago
  > That is an absurd decision. Your decision is absurd because that was exactly why you chose to set your strawman like that. If you take a step back and force yourself to take a honest and reasonable look at what the OP really said, you'll quickly understand that all caring parents, even when considering that the average children's risk of serious illness is relatively low, do have a high risk aversion regarding their well-being. Therefore, they breathe easier if their kids' immune system is well trained and prepared to handle an infection, which is precisely what you get when you're vaccinated.
  - ergocoder 5y ago
    > the average children's risk of serious illness is relatively low There you go. As I mentioned, when pointing out about school reopening, now covid isn't a huge deal. But unvaccinated 20-29 years old is like the biggest deal ever.
    - schwartzworld 5y ago
      Nobody knows what the long-term effects of covid in developing kids could be. I'm not worried about them dying of covid, but having their lives altered. > But unvaccinated 20-29 years old is like the biggest deal ever Don't know exactly what you're referring to since all the unvaxxed people I know are old, but it's irresponsible not to get it.
helge9210 5y ago
> I'll breathe easier once they are vaccinated too What if vaccination won't help to reduce your anxiety?

KyeRussell 5y ago

Honestly it just sounds like you’ve bought into the politics of it all. This is (mostly) a scientific issue, and inherent in that is the fact that the body of knowledge changes as a result of new observations. > If you point that out, people will counter back with covid doesn't impact kids. Well, okay? Who is “people”? Are you using a consistent source? If your point is that people have different understandings of appropriate COVID responses, then I guess I agree, but I don’t think that that’s the point that you’re trying to make. More to the point, I can’t see how any government response could combat the fact that in 2021 everyone is an expert and disinformation is rife. This is a pre-existing condition.

ergocoder 5y ago
Majority of people agree with school opening. Therefore, covid is seen as not a big deal. Because if covid is a huge deal, we wouldn't trade dead kids with educating kids. Being alive would almost always come first
- bumpersstickers 5y ago
  The obvious conclusion is that it’s total bullshit: the two mechanisms driving this are “I want to keep working from home.” AND “I am not an individual, therefore no one else is.” THEREFORE “Blah blah blah lies and crap”
- nuerow 5y ago
  >.Majority of people agree with school opening. Therefore, covid is seen as not a big deal. COVID-19 is not the big deal it was a few months ago because back then vaccine rollout barely started. Right now, those who still haven't got the jab either can't take it yet or are outright refusing to take it. Meanwhile, children can't be vaccinated but enjoy a low risk of developing serious illness. Given the scenario, it was necessary to evaluate the risk of deciding whether to impose a lockdown onto the school population, which would be largely incoherent and disproportionate to the risk, or returning to school while enforcing basic and low-effort health and safety measures, such as wearing masks and respect social distancing. Most of the world, if not all, chose to resume the school year with students returning to school.

Spivak 5y ago

I think you’re talking about the opinions of two different groups which is why they conflict. I’m fully vaxxed plus a booster and I don’t really want to be around unmasked unvaxxed people if I can help it. Like the vaccine isn’t magic, the effectiveness drops over time and more exposures compounds the risk. There’s zero gain to be around a high risk group, especially when it’s so easy to avoid right now. And I still wear a mask and encourage others to as well (not that it matters because there are still mandates) because I don’t want to accidentally be an asymptotic carrier to someone, especially someone unvaccinated — I have friends and family with weak immune systems and kids. Wearing a mask costs me nothing, especially now that it’s cold and keeps my face warm, and might do some good. I also think it is monumentally stupid that schools around here opened. Sure yeah, pack kids in poorly ventilated rooms for 8 hours a day, nothing bad will happen there.

ergocoder 5y ago
The question now is for how long we will need to keep prevent weakimmune people. Didn't they have this exact problem before covid with 1000 other diseases? At this point, it seems weak immune people are weaponized.
- brandon272 5y ago
  > The question now is for how long we will need to keep prevent weakimmune people. Why must a timeline be put on it? The people asking "how long do we need to do this" kind of remind me of the kids in the back seat on a long trip asking every 10 minutes "are we there yet?" It's a global pandemic the likes the which no living generation has witnessed before. No one can tell you the future. Anyone putting a timeline on it is giving you their best guess, not a guarantee. I understand that is mentally and emotionally tough to deal with for a lot of people, but that's the sober reality of our current situation. We have vaccines (miraculously) but only a partially vaccinated planet. We have promising therapeutics on the horizon (see last week's news about Pfizer's new drug), but we are many months or years away from them being available as ubiquitously as we need them to be. > Didn't they have this exact problem before covid with 1000 other diseases? That were as 1) widespread, 2) severe and 3) as contagious as COVID-19? I can't think of any.

nuerow 5y ago

> Vaccine prevents covid (e.g. death and major injury). Somehow vaccinated people are scared of unvaccinated or vaccinated-but-unmasked people. Huh? You need to get your story straight. Things are quite simple as easy to understand once you take an honest look at the issue. For instance: * The current generation of COVID-19 vaccines trains the immune system to have a fighting chance against COVID-19 and are effective at practically eliminating the risk of serious illness, but they do not prevent infection or spread. * Some people cannot take the vaccine, such as the case of pregnant women until recently. Others do continue to be at risk even after taking the vaccine such as those plagued with comorbidities. See Colin Powell. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/colin-powell-suffered-from-a-cancer-that-makes-covid-vaccine-less-effective.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/colin-powell-suffered-from-a... * The risk of spawning a new strain that is not handled by the vaccine is proportional to the number of infections, thus contributing to it's spread endangers us all. See how the Delta variant was spawned in India. https://www.wsj.com/articles/rising-covid-19-breakthrough-cases-hinder-efforts-to-control-virus-11636191003 https://www.wsj.com/articles/rising-covid-19-breakthrough-ca... This is widely known by anyone who honestly cares about the subject and did a cursory search on the topic. In my case, the local vaccination drive distributed a leaflet explaining everything. Is any of this info new to you?

ergocoder 5y ago
From your reasons, opening school is extremely unsafe since kids cannot be vaccinated. So, what is with the contradictory actions?
- nuerow 5y ago
  > From your reasons, opening in school is extremely unsafe since kids cannot be vaccinated. Taken from: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/questions-answers/questions-answers-school-transmission#:~:text=Most%20children%20do%20not%20develop,while%20they%20are%20infectious https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/questions-answers/que.... "Most children do not develop symptoms when infected with the virus, or they develop a very mild form of the disease. However, research has shown that children can become infected, and can spread the virus to other children and adults while they are infectious."