4 ms·

Does it serve some purpose by immediately taking the computer or human opponent out of opening book play and make them start burning compute cycles on the very

Does it serve some purpose by immediately taking the computer or human opponent out of opening book play and make them start burning compute cycles on the very next move already?

317070 5y ago
It kind of does, but there are arguably better ways of doing that. You are effectively putting the opponent in a clearly better position, but giving him the task of converting it before any pressure has been built up. That can throw people off.
bluGill 5y ago
Though it seems to becoming a popular fad these past few years, so your opponent just might be booked up on it a bit and then you are in trouble. Giving your opponent time to think in an objectively winning position is rarely a recipe for wins.
gliptic 5y ago
For humans it might occasionally throw off your opponent psychologically, but it rarely actually works. Computers will, however, always find a refutation very, very quickly and then you're just in a worse position.
- rectang 5y ago
  With humans, it depends on the level of play and the time controls. You are sacrificing positional soundness and initiative to neutralize opening preparation (assuming your opponent hasn't prepped for the Bongcloud specifically). Taking your opponent out of book is a greater advantage with short time controls. I don't play crappy openings to win, though. I just want to play a wide variety of novel middle games, and if I have to sacrifice 100 rating points to get people out of book, that's a bargain. Because otherwise loss-aversion takes over and chess is all about playing for the draw.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    People are taking this whole "get your opponent out of the opening prep by playing bongcloud" way too seriously. One of the first things you learn as a beginner chess player is how to play against awful openings. It's not like good people have forgotten their opening principles.
    - rectang 5y ago
      But from my perspective, playing someone who's in the mindset of punishing my awful opening sounds exciting! If you measure exclusively against the metric of "how to max out your rating", then yeah, weird openings aren't very helpful. But if your metric is "how to dredge wild tactical games out of opponents, even if I lose more often", then weird openings are generally superior. Of course the better way to neutralize opening prep and experience more wild games is just to play more Chess 960.

Does it serve some purpose by immediately taking the computer or human opponent out of opening book play and make them start burning compute cycles on the very next move already?

317070 5y ago

It kind of does, but there are arguably better ways of doing that. You are effectively putting the opponent in a clearly better position, but giving him the task of converting it before any pressure has been built up. That can throw people off.

bluGill 5y ago

Though it seems to becoming a popular fad these past few years, so your opponent just might be booked up on it a bit and then you are in trouble. Giving your opponent time to think in an objectively winning position is rarely a recipe for wins.

gliptic 5y ago

For humans it might occasionally throw off your opponent psychologically, but it rarely actually works. Computers will, however, always find a refutation very, very quickly and then you're just in a worse position.

rectang 5y ago
With humans, it depends on the level of play and the time controls. You are sacrificing positional soundness and initiative to neutralize opening preparation (assuming your opponent hasn't prepped for the Bongcloud specifically). Taking your opponent out of book is a greater advantage with short time controls. I don't play crappy openings to win, though. I just want to play a wide variety of novel middle games, and if I have to sacrifice 100 rating points to get people out of book, that's a bargain. Because otherwise loss-aversion takes over and chess is all about playing for the draw.
- yupper32 5y ago
  People are taking this whole "get your opponent out of the opening prep by playing bongcloud" way too seriously. One of the first things you learn as a beginner chess player is how to play against awful openings. It's not like good people have forgotten their opening principles.
  - rectang 5y ago
    But from my perspective, playing someone who's in the mindset of punishing my awful opening sounds exciting! If you measure exclusively against the metric of "how to max out your rating", then yeah, weird openings aren't very helpful. But if your metric is "how to dredge wild tactical games out of opponents, even if I lose more often", then weird openings are generally superior. Of course the better way to neutralize opening prep and experience more wild games is just to play more Chess 960.