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Weird, I got an M1 Air recently and it's super fast (the most notably faster seeming new computer I've gotten in a decade) and all these issues are incredibly f

Weird, I got an M1 Air recently and it's super fast (the most notably faster seeming new computer I've gotten in a decade) and all these issues are incredibly foreign to me. I just can't relate to this comment at all...

grp000 5y ago
What use case do you have for your Mac? The benchmarks and battery life have been tempting me, but I use Docker a lot which I'm hearing mixed messages for, and to be honest, my Intel-based work Mac is less palatable to use than my personal Ubuntu setup, especially in regards to workspaces, and some weird Bluetooth issues.
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  I’m on the same boat. Using an intel Mac provided by work. Had an M1 MacBook Pro until a few months ago, and it was great at several things(fast, responsive, quiet, and great battery life) at the cost of crippled Docker use(I needed local docker at that time). I feel like many many engineers like me would easily get a reliable laptop with MacBook Pro like specs. The problem is that simply does not exist. Excellent hidpi display. Ryzen 5000 series CPU with its low power draw. Good build quality. Reliable support system. Non weird components such that a recent release of popular Linux distribution would “just work” without needing manual tweaks. In my experience, you get 3/5 in the above list at best. Framework laptop hits several of those points but misses out on Ryzen. Another contender on my list is ASUS 14 OLED with Ryzen - I’m worried about their support system though.
  - Roritharr 5y ago
    If you can compromise on the HiDPI Screen, checkout the HP EliteBook 8X5 Series, they are amazing machines. You can plug up to 64gb of RAM into them if you need it, they run pretty smooth and my colleagues can run Linux on them without any issues.
    - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
      Wow! Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Looks very appealing. I might get one! They're expensive, though. But it might honestly be worth it to me.
      - yulaow 5y ago
        I want just to add that I am using a 8x0 g5 elitebook currently (because at the time there was not the 8x5 series which uses amd ryzens) and it's by far the best linux laptop I ever used in my whole life. Also very sturdy and looks great.
        kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
        I'm even more tempted. My XPS 13 Developer Edition was also a very nice experience on Linux. How is the trackpad?
        yulaow 5y ago
        Well you know, it's like the standard of the high end for windows laptop, still behind what apple put in their macbooks, but comparable with what you are gonna find on xps and thinkpad x/t.
    - reacharavindh 5y ago
      Looks nice indeed. I have been spoiled by the excellent Retina display on Macs. For something literally in front of my eyes for a big part of the day, it must be good. I cannot see myself compromising to a lower res display :-( May be for others that are not as nitpicky as me….
      - dzhiurgis 5y ago
        Maybe way to got is simple linux laptop for work and an iPad for everything else. Would probably still end up being cheaper than a MBP.
  - Uberphallus 5y ago
    Asus Zenbooks have always been solid on Linux for me, using them since they came out. Typing this on a UM425.
- kristiandupont 5y ago
  I run a Linux VM for development and it's glorious. [link redacted]
  - gbrindisi 5y ago
    how is the performance of the emulated vm? I would like to do something similar but I am reading mixed opinions
    - kristiandupont 5y ago
      I don't have any numbers to give you, I can just tell you that the experience I have is that this setup performs noticeably better then my 2019 MBP.
- saila 5y ago
  I had some issues with Docker when I first got my M1, but then I realized I was using an amd64 image. Images built for arm work fine for me.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    If you can get it built for arm. I've got so much build errors I didn't bother to check.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Docker is hopelessly broken on the Intel Macs, and from what I’ve heard it’s certainly not any worse on the M1 Macs.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > it’s certainly not any worse on the M1 Macs. Probably not any better either. If you want to run docker on a mac you probably should not, but the second best strategy is probably to bite the bullet and run an actual VM in which you do your docker stuff. Odds are a proper and well maintained hypervisor you keep running will be a lot better than whatever DfM does.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      > Probably not any better either. Probably, although you probably do still get better thermals and battery life with the M1 Macs.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    > not any worse About 6x worse perf in my specific case.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      Fair enough. My Intel Mac gets about a 5x performance penalty doing Webpack builds in Docker versus natively. My coworkers using M1 Macs report similar numbers. What workflows are you seeing M1 Macs getting 6x worse Docker performance than Intel Macs?
      - dzhiurgis 5y ago
        sort of explained here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29144096 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29144096
  - filmgirlcw 5y ago
    Eh, it is worse. Worse to the point that even though I just got a MaxBook, I won’t even conceive of getting rid of my 2020 maxed out Intel iMac. And it’s why I have other x86 machines too for Linux or whatever, because containers on macOS are rough but containers and Docker specifically on the M1 is really rough. It is clearly an ecosystem/use case that Apple doesn’t prioritize. It makes the case for stuff like GiHub Codespaces or sshing into a remote machine via VS Code a lot more manageable. For everything else, the M1 is a beast, and even emulated, you can get a really good Linux experience (Windows too for that matter — games, obviously not withstanding), but containers? Nah. It’s worse than the already sad state on Intel Macs.
- upbeat_general 5y ago
  Yeah I'd carefully look at what your expectations are with regard to compatibility. Docker itself seems to run just fine but running X86 (AMD64) containers is pretty slow compared to normal macOS docker which is already slow. I've loved my M1 MBA but I purchased it specifically knowing I have a primary x86 workstation to fallback on for heavier tasks and I'll often give up trying to install some dep/run some program on the MBA and switch to that. It still works great as a general purpose device and I do some dev on it but if you're looking to do all your dev on it, I'd be cautious.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  Def got slightly burned by docker on M1 Pro. Inherited a python project with 250 deps. Building docker image (part of is compiling spacy) used to be ~10 minutes, now it's a whopping 65 minutes.
- sanderjd 5y ago
  Personal programming projects and normal web browsing type stuff. What has been most noticeably faster for me is compiling code.
emn13 5y ago
Apple refuses to ship gpl3 software for seemingly no sane reason (judging by the fact other commercial software vendors including e.g. windows don't have this issue) probably explains the command line issues; apples' tools are an entirely different codebase from the tools in linux distros. And unless you actively compare systems, you might never notice the apple versions are different. It's been this way since OSX day 1 IIRC, so it's a little surprising the apple versions are still apparently inferior (if the grandparent poster is anything to go by, haven't used em in years), but it's conceivable the CLI just isn't an apple priority. I wish they'd just give up already and copy as much (of the CLI-relevant stuff) as possible from linux, and accept that they'll need to give up a tiny amount of control over a small sliver of their OS - a sliver that they never wrote in the first place and also can't really change the api of, because that would break all kinds of things, which renders their ability to close source somewhat moot anyhow. And most users never use this stuff! The linux-conventional gnu variants are well maintained and usable in both MS world and linux world - having CLI scripts that are more easily portable across three OS's would be great. Apple's toxic control-freak nature really hurts here, and mostly just their users. I really don't get it. Anyhow, there are workarounds (but e.g. homebrew is hit and miss), it's mostly just an annoyance they're even necessary.
- fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
  It’s a perfectly reasonable reason: they were forced to open source their objective-C compiler that was built on gcc and decided they didn’t ever want to be in that position again. The BSD tools are annoying, if you’re used to the Linux versions, but they’re perfectly reasonable implementations of the relevant POSIX utilities (better than busybox, for example).
  - SeanLuke 5y ago
    What? NeXT open-sourced their Objective-C gcc extensions in 1992, a half-decade before Apple bought them.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
Spooky23 5y ago
If you like to add random crap from home brew all of the time, you’ll notice different issues than you did on x86
AndyMcConachie 5y ago
My M1 Air crashes everytime I wake it from sleep and then immediately watch a Youtube video in Firefox. I can reliably reproduce this. If I open the laptop so it wakes up, login, and open a Youtube video it will hard crash close to 100% of the time.
- mlindner 5y ago
  Firefox just changed how their full screen video playing works in the most recent released (version 94). Could be that. Try an earlier version of Firefox. M1 Air here that I've had for almost a year with zero issues, and I also use Firefox and watch a lot of youtube.

grp000 5y ago

What use case do you have for your Mac? The benchmarks and battery life have been tempting me, but I use Docker a lot which I'm hearing mixed messages for, and to be honest, my Intel-based work Mac is less palatable to use than my personal Ubuntu setup, especially in regards to workspaces, and some weird Bluetooth issues.

reacharavindh 5y ago
I’m on the same boat. Using an intel Mac provided by work. Had an M1 MacBook Pro until a few months ago, and it was great at several things(fast, responsive, quiet, and great battery life) at the cost of crippled Docker use(I needed local docker at that time). I feel like many many engineers like me would easily get a reliable laptop with MacBook Pro like specs. The problem is that simply does not exist. Excellent hidpi display. Ryzen 5000 series CPU with its low power draw. Good build quality. Reliable support system. Non weird components such that a recent release of popular Linux distribution would “just work” without needing manual tweaks. In my experience, you get 3/5 in the above list at best. Framework laptop hits several of those points but misses out on Ryzen. Another contender on my list is ASUS 14 OLED with Ryzen - I’m worried about their support system though.
- Roritharr 5y ago
  If you can compromise on the HiDPI Screen, checkout the HP EliteBook 8X5 Series, they are amazing machines. You can plug up to 64gb of RAM into them if you need it, they run pretty smooth and my colleagues can run Linux on them without any issues.
  - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
    Wow! Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Looks very appealing. I might get one! They're expensive, though. But it might honestly be worth it to me.
    - yulaow 5y ago
      I want just to add that I am using a 8x0 g5 elitebook currently (because at the time there was not the 8x5 series which uses amd ryzens) and it's by far the best linux laptop I ever used in my whole life. Also very sturdy and looks great.
      - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
        I'm even more tempted. My XPS 13 Developer Edition was also a very nice experience on Linux. How is the trackpad?
        yulaow 5y ago
        Well you know, it's like the standard of the high end for windows laptop, still behind what apple put in their macbooks, but comparable with what you are gonna find on xps and thinkpad x/t.
  - reacharavindh 5y ago
    Looks nice indeed. I have been spoiled by the excellent Retina display on Macs. For something literally in front of my eyes for a big part of the day, it must be good. I cannot see myself compromising to a lower res display :-( May be for others that are not as nitpicky as me….
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      Maybe way to got is simple linux laptop for work and an iPad for everything else. Would probably still end up being cheaper than a MBP.
- Uberphallus 5y ago
  Asus Zenbooks have always been solid on Linux for me, using them since they came out. Typing this on a UM425.
kristiandupont 5y ago
I run a Linux VM for development and it's glorious. [link redacted]
- gbrindisi 5y ago
  how is the performance of the emulated vm? I would like to do something similar but I am reading mixed opinions
  - kristiandupont 5y ago
    I don't have any numbers to give you, I can just tell you that the experience I have is that this setup performs noticeably better then my 2019 MBP.
saila 5y ago
I had some issues with Docker when I first got my M1, but then I realized I was using an amd64 image. Images built for arm work fine for me.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  If you can get it built for arm. I've got so much build errors I didn't bother to check.
tshaddox 5y ago
Docker is hopelessly broken on the Intel Macs, and from what I’ve heard it’s certainly not any worse on the M1 Macs.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > it’s certainly not any worse on the M1 Macs. Probably not any better either. If you want to run docker on a mac you probably should not, but the second best strategy is probably to bite the bullet and run an actual VM in which you do your docker stuff. Odds are a proper and well maintained hypervisor you keep running will be a lot better than whatever DfM does.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    > Probably not any better either. Probably, although you probably do still get better thermals and battery life with the M1 Macs.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  > not any worse About 6x worse perf in my specific case.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Fair enough. My Intel Mac gets about a 5x performance penalty doing Webpack builds in Docker versus natively. My coworkers using M1 Macs report similar numbers. What workflows are you seeing M1 Macs getting 6x worse Docker performance than Intel Macs?
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      sort of explained here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29144096 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29144096
- filmgirlcw 5y ago
  Eh, it is worse. Worse to the point that even though I just got a MaxBook, I won’t even conceive of getting rid of my 2020 maxed out Intel iMac. And it’s why I have other x86 machines too for Linux or whatever, because containers on macOS are rough but containers and Docker specifically on the M1 is really rough. It is clearly an ecosystem/use case that Apple doesn’t prioritize. It makes the case for stuff like GiHub Codespaces or sshing into a remote machine via VS Code a lot more manageable. For everything else, the M1 is a beast, and even emulated, you can get a really good Linux experience (Windows too for that matter — games, obviously not withstanding), but containers? Nah. It’s worse than the already sad state on Intel Macs.
upbeat_general 5y ago
Yeah I'd carefully look at what your expectations are with regard to compatibility. Docker itself seems to run just fine but running X86 (AMD64) containers is pretty slow compared to normal macOS docker which is already slow. I've loved my M1 MBA but I purchased it specifically knowing I have a primary x86 workstation to fallback on for heavier tasks and I'll often give up trying to install some dep/run some program on the MBA and switch to that. It still works great as a general purpose device and I do some dev on it but if you're looking to do all your dev on it, I'd be cautious.
dzhiurgis 5y ago
Def got slightly burned by docker on M1 Pro. Inherited a python project with 250 deps. Building docker image (part of is compiling spacy) used to be ~10 minutes, now it's a whopping 65 minutes.
sanderjd 5y ago
Personal programming projects and normal web browsing type stuff. What has been most noticeably faster for me is compiling code.

emn13 5y ago

Apple refuses to ship gpl3 software for seemingly no sane reason (judging by the fact other commercial software vendors including e.g. windows don't have this issue) probably explains the command line issues; apples' tools are an entirely different codebase from the tools in linux distros. And unless you actively compare systems, you might never notice the apple versions are different. It's been this way since OSX day 1 IIRC, so it's a little surprising the apple versions are still apparently inferior (if the grandparent poster is anything to go by, haven't used em in years), but it's conceivable the CLI just isn't an apple priority. I wish they'd just give up already and copy as much (of the CLI-relevant stuff) as possible from linux, and accept that they'll need to give up a tiny amount of control over a small sliver of their OS - a sliver that they never wrote in the first place and also can't really change the api of, because that would break all kinds of things, which renders their ability to close source somewhat moot anyhow. And most users never use this stuff! The linux-conventional gnu variants are well maintained and usable in both MS world and linux world - having CLI scripts that are more easily portable across three OS's would be great. Apple's toxic control-freak nature really hurts here, and mostly just their users. I really don't get it. Anyhow, there are workarounds (but e.g. homebrew is hit and miss), it's mostly just an annoyance they're even necessary.

fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
It’s a perfectly reasonable reason: they were forced to open source their objective-C compiler that was built on gcc and decided they didn’t ever want to be in that position again. The BSD tools are annoying, if you’re used to the Linux versions, but they’re perfectly reasonable implementations of the relevant POSIX utilities (better than busybox, for example).
- SeanLuke 5y ago
  What? NeXT open-sourced their Objective-C gcc extensions in 1992, a half-decade before Apple bought them.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago

Spooky23 5y ago

If you like to add random crap from home brew all of the time, you’ll notice different issues than you did on x86

AndyMcConachie 5y ago

My M1 Air crashes everytime I wake it from sleep and then immediately watch a Youtube video in Firefox. I can reliably reproduce this. If I open the laptop so it wakes up, login, and open a Youtube video it will hard crash close to 100% of the time.

mlindner 5y ago
Firefox just changed how their full screen video playing works in the most recent released (version 94). Could be that. Try an earlier version of Firefox. M1 Air here that I've had for almost a year with zero issues, and I also use Firefox and watch a lot of youtube.