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> These are arguably even less valuable than the cultural norms of Bible-thumping small towns. Since you seem to be a fan of intellectual rigor, can you descri

by _jal 5y ago

> These are arguably even less valuable than the cultural norms of Bible-thumping small towns. Since you seem to be a fan of intellectual rigor, can you describe the process by which you arrive at the relative worth of (apparently) social science programs vs. small town social behavior? Can that method also tell us whether citrus flavors are more valuable than ballet?

barry-cotter 5y ago
Nothing he said referenced the social sciences in any way. He referred to * Studies. The Social Sciences all aim at truth in some way, whether you're talking about Sociology, Anthropology, Economics or Political Science.
rayiner 5y ago
Both social sciences and cultural studies are quite self consciously meant to be applied to understanding and improving society. It’s not the study of dead societies, but our own. Culture, meanwhile, is the organically developed heuristics and norms of communities. You can measure the relative worth of these things by looking at the functioning of society on various metrics. Unlike say civil engineers, practitioners of *studies and social sciences have demonstrated little ability to come into a community and make live measurably better for everyone. Arguably, as traditional social norms have been eroded, many communities are less healthy than ever—much more so than you’d expect looking at just the economic numbers. Millennials as a generation are the richest ever, yet seem profoundly unhappy and unsatisfied.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "Millennials as a generation are the richest ever" That's plain wrong, they have less disposable income and lower net worth than the two generations before them had at the same stage in their life. Just because stock market grew doesn't mean life of an average Joe improved.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    They’re following the same trajectory as previous generations: https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2021/09/01/who-is-the-wealthiest-generation/ https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2021/09/01/who-is-the-w... This stuff is complicated so make sure you’re comparing like with like. Even the chart above ignored one critical adjustment: in 1970 just 5% of the population was foreign born, while today its 15%. Millennials are much more likely today to be recent economic migrants, or the children of them, than boomers. That drags the numbers down, but doesn’t imply anything negative about millennials’ economic status. Indeed, those immigrants are experiencing upward economic mobility, and are seeing themselves that way. The dour attitude among millennials seems to be mainly on the native born, who really are doing as well or better than their parents. At least, they’re doing better economically. Thanks to social changes, they have less agency than their parents did. They have few opportunities to garner authority and respect in their communities. They’re not building families and getting the hope that comes from nurturing the next generation. They have many reasons to be dour. Their parents failed them!
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Thats a good perspective and adjustment, but we know wealth inequality has increased, and a few billionaires can inflate that number unrealistically - it would be good to compare median and standard deviation.
      - rayiner 5y ago
        Wealth inequality has increased, particularly the upper middle class pulling away: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-dangerous-separation-of-the-american-upper-middle-class/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-dangerous-separation-...

by _jal 5y ago

barry-cotter 5y ago

Nothing he said referenced the social sciences in any way. He referred to * Studies. The Social Sciences all aim at truth in some way, whether you're talking about Sociology, Anthropology, Economics or Political Science.

rayiner 5y ago

Both social sciences and cultural studies are quite self consciously meant to be applied to understanding and improving society. It’s not the study of dead societies, but our own. Culture, meanwhile, is the organically developed heuristics and norms of communities. You can measure the relative worth of these things by looking at the functioning of society on various metrics. Unlike say civil engineers, practitioners of *studies and social sciences have demonstrated little ability to come into a community and make live measurably better for everyone. Arguably, as traditional social norms have been eroded, many communities are less healthy than ever—much more so than you’d expect looking at just the economic numbers. Millennials as a generation are the richest ever, yet seem profoundly unhappy and unsatisfied.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Millennials as a generation are the richest ever" That's plain wrong, they have less disposable income and lower net worth than the two generations before them had at the same stage in their life. Just because stock market grew doesn't mean life of an average Joe improved.
- rayiner 5y ago
  They’re following the same trajectory as previous generations: https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2021/09/01/who-is-the-wealthiest-generation/ https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2021/09/01/who-is-the-w... This stuff is complicated so make sure you’re comparing like with like. Even the chart above ignored one critical adjustment: in 1970 just 5% of the population was foreign born, while today its 15%. Millennials are much more likely today to be recent economic migrants, or the children of them, than boomers. That drags the numbers down, but doesn’t imply anything negative about millennials’ economic status. Indeed, those immigrants are experiencing upward economic mobility, and are seeing themselves that way. The dour attitude among millennials seems to be mainly on the native born, who really are doing as well or better than their parents. At least, they’re doing better economically. Thanks to social changes, they have less agency than their parents did. They have few opportunities to garner authority and respect in their communities. They’re not building families and getting the hope that comes from nurturing the next generation. They have many reasons to be dour. Their parents failed them!
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Thats a good perspective and adjustment, but we know wealth inequality has increased, and a few billionaires can inflate that number unrealistically - it would be good to compare median and standard deviation.
    - rayiner 5y ago
      Wealth inequality has increased, particularly the upper middle class pulling away: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-dangerous-separation-of-the-american-upper-middle-class/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-dangerous-separation-...