5 ms·

Could be that I've been using Linux on the desktop for a long time and so I've gotten used to things, but I don't relate at all with the "desktop Linux is in a

by yoavm 5y ago

Could be that I've been using Linux on the desktop for a long time and so I've gotten used to things, but I don't relate at all with the "desktop Linux is in a terrible state" statement. It works great for me, it's super functional, it's doesn't get in my way. Guess it's not for everyone (like everything), but on the other hand I'm pretty sure my mom would do perfectly fine with just surfing the internet, which is anyway what most people do nowadays. I feel it just took Linux too long, and frankly people have no reason to change, but it really isn't bad at all. Often helping my friends maintaining a virus/bloat/bug free environment on their Windows or Mac machines seems way more complicated.

bestouff 5y ago
I totally agree with you. When I have to use a Windows desktop, I feel like being thrown into a mess with inconsistencies, advertisements and software generally working for somebody else than the user. MacOs feels better but way too limited. I love my Gnome desktop.
igetspam 5y ago
My four year old and my wife both have Chromebooks that they use daily. I know it's not really a standard Linux distro but it's not far off from what I'm running (coincidentally being Pop_OS! now because I've grown too lazy for Slackware). Desktop Linux is far from terrible and, like you, I remember when it really was. I can remember when it was so bad that sticking to the console was often easier (printing, dial up, irc)
resonious 5y ago
I hear so many complaints from my Mac and Windows-using colleagues that just don't happen to me on Linux. It really feels like the tables have turned. The Windows users bend over backwards just to use Linux (WSL) where the only Windows apps running are Google Chrome and VSCode (which also support Linux natively so ??). The Mac folks struggle with performance because of Docker using a VM with poor filesystem sync performance. Again, busting their backs just to use Linux. And it's worse now that they're using these M1 chips that segfault when our app uses FFI. These folks don't even like or use xcode or any mac-only software. I'm still a bit biased in that I know how to set up a good Linux machine and others might still struggle with that. But it really looks like they're already struggling.
- zibzab 5y ago
  I find it amusing that the best part of Windows and OSX right now are WSL and Docker support. I use both when needed, but since gnome improved performance and UX its just so much better experience to use the real thing. Unpopular opinion: companies whose core operation is around Linux should start using Linux on desktop instead of bending backwards to not do so. How about it, Linode?
  - mbernstein 5y ago
    I'd argue the best part of MacOS is the font rendering.
  - pbalau 5y ago
    > I find it amusing that the best part of Windows and OSX right now are WSL and Docker support. I find it amusing that you think that. I still use my 2015 Mac Book Air because it still going strong, both hardware and software (albeit an older version of the os) and I still use my Windows PC (built it during the pandemic) because games. My docker needs are fulfiled by an Intel NUC (with Debian) for my home development needs and an EC2 instance for work. Never started/installed/read much into WSL.
- II2II 5y ago
  I don't know if it is a case of the tables turning, or if we tend to overlook faults in our preferred operating system. I have used Linux for over 25 years, know how it works and like how it works. While there are distributions that I like and distributions that I don't like, I rarely run into technical issues. At the same time, I cannot deny that other people do run into technical issues. Perhaps my experience means that I subconsciously avoid the facets that cause others problems. That being said, I have had a lot of bad experiences with Windows that others like to deny. Perhaps their experience means they are subconsciously avoiding facets of Windows that have caused problems on my end.
thatmiddleway 5y ago
I’ve had my dad using fedora for many years now, and he’s the opposite of tech savvy. Honestly, I get less tech questions/problems from him than my other family members that use Apple products. It stays out of his way and is a safe secure environment that’s not collecting his personal information.
- hunter-gatherer 5y ago
  Same with my mom. She is so terrible with tech (older lady that doesn't understand that email can be accessed from a browser, or what a browser is for that matter). She was always running into wild issues with windows. One day a few years ago I bought an old computer off ebay, installed Mint, showed her around for a few minutes.... and that has been the end of my IT support tenure. Praise Zeus.
pid-1 5y ago
I'm currently using Zorin OS (which is based on Ubuntu) and it took some work to make a few peripherals and features work correctly (headset, dock station, hibernate). That's probably a show stopper for many users. However, I'm positively surprised by its overall interface and I think flatpack is really cool for non tech users. I wonder why hardware manufacturers such as Dell, Logitech, Lenovo, etc... Won't invest in a Linux distro. Like, if MS wanted they could totally lock out a vendor from their customers. Sounds risky.
LinAGKar 5y ago
The people who are just surfing the internet are the people who have moved to tablets and Chromebooks though, they don't need regular PCs. The people who are staying around on PC are people like developers, content creators, gamers and office workers, and these are the people System76 needs to appeal to. Only in the first of these groups has Linux been somewhat successful.
kiawe_fire 5y ago
To be honest, I think all major desktop environments are in an equally terrible state (including MacOS and Linux), but none particularly more so than another. I’ve been very happy using Gnome and KDE more so than Windows or MacOS the past year, but they each have odd quirks, as do MacOS and Windows. In fact, although I’ve had plenty odd graphical bugs and occasional crashes with both Linux DEs, almost every time I’ve had to use Windows or MacOS for something, I’ve experienced even worse over there. In some ways I think we should all be disgusted that the desktop UI has largely stagnated while still having so many odd issues across the board, but at the same time, I guess pleased that they have all largely caught up to each other in most regards and are all “about as good as it gets, for now”. That said, I find myself gravitating towards Linux if for no reason other than, if all else fails, the source code is there for me to modify if and when I desire.

by yoavm 5y ago

bestouff 5y ago

I totally agree with you. When I have to use a Windows desktop, I feel like being thrown into a mess with inconsistencies, advertisements and software generally working for somebody else than the user. MacOs feels better but way too limited. I love my Gnome desktop.

igetspam 5y ago

My four year old and my wife both have Chromebooks that they use daily. I know it's not really a standard Linux distro but it's not far off from what I'm running (coincidentally being Pop_OS! now because I've grown too lazy for Slackware). Desktop Linux is far from terrible and, like you, I remember when it really was. I can remember when it was so bad that sticking to the console was often easier (printing, dial up, irc)

resonious 5y ago

I hear so many complaints from my Mac and Windows-using colleagues that just don't happen to me on Linux. It really feels like the tables have turned. The Windows users bend over backwards just to use Linux (WSL) where the only Windows apps running are Google Chrome and VSCode (which also support Linux natively so ??). The Mac folks struggle with performance because of Docker using a VM with poor filesystem sync performance. Again, busting their backs just to use Linux. And it's worse now that they're using these M1 chips that segfault when our app uses FFI. These folks don't even like or use xcode or any mac-only software. I'm still a bit biased in that I know how to set up a good Linux machine and others might still struggle with that. But it really looks like they're already struggling.

zibzab 5y ago
I find it amusing that the best part of Windows and OSX right now are WSL and Docker support. I use both when needed, but since gnome improved performance and UX its just so much better experience to use the real thing. Unpopular opinion: companies whose core operation is around Linux should start using Linux on desktop instead of bending backwards to not do so. How about it, Linode?
- mbernstein 5y ago
  I'd argue the best part of MacOS is the font rendering.
- pbalau 5y ago
  > I find it amusing that the best part of Windows and OSX right now are WSL and Docker support. I find it amusing that you think that. I still use my 2015 Mac Book Air because it still going strong, both hardware and software (albeit an older version of the os) and I still use my Windows PC (built it during the pandemic) because games. My docker needs are fulfiled by an Intel NUC (with Debian) for my home development needs and an EC2 instance for work. Never started/installed/read much into WSL.
II2II 5y ago
I don't know if it is a case of the tables turning, or if we tend to overlook faults in our preferred operating system. I have used Linux for over 25 years, know how it works and like how it works. While there are distributions that I like and distributions that I don't like, I rarely run into technical issues. At the same time, I cannot deny that other people do run into technical issues. Perhaps my experience means that I subconsciously avoid the facets that cause others problems. That being said, I have had a lot of bad experiences with Windows that others like to deny. Perhaps their experience means they are subconsciously avoiding facets of Windows that have caused problems on my end.

thatmiddleway 5y ago

I’ve had my dad using fedora for many years now, and he’s the opposite of tech savvy. Honestly, I get less tech questions/problems from him than my other family members that use Apple products. It stays out of his way and is a safe secure environment that’s not collecting his personal information.

hunter-gatherer 5y ago
Same with my mom. She is so terrible with tech (older lady that doesn't understand that email can be accessed from a browser, or what a browser is for that matter). She was always running into wild issues with windows. One day a few years ago I bought an old computer off ebay, installed Mint, showed her around for a few minutes.... and that has been the end of my IT support tenure. Praise Zeus.

pid-1 5y ago

I'm currently using Zorin OS (which is based on Ubuntu) and it took some work to make a few peripherals and features work correctly (headset, dock station, hibernate). That's probably a show stopper for many users. However, I'm positively surprised by its overall interface and I think flatpack is really cool for non tech users. I wonder why hardware manufacturers such as Dell, Logitech, Lenovo, etc... Won't invest in a Linux distro. Like, if MS wanted they could totally lock out a vendor from their customers. Sounds risky.

LinAGKar 5y ago

The people who are just surfing the internet are the people who have moved to tablets and Chromebooks though, they don't need regular PCs. The people who are staying around on PC are people like developers, content creators, gamers and office workers, and these are the people System76 needs to appeal to. Only in the first of these groups has Linux been somewhat successful.

kiawe_fire 5y ago

To be honest, I think all major desktop environments are in an equally terrible state (including MacOS and Linux), but none particularly more so than another. I’ve been very happy using Gnome and KDE more so than Windows or MacOS the past year, but they each have odd quirks, as do MacOS and Windows. In fact, although I’ve had plenty odd graphical bugs and occasional crashes with both Linux DEs, almost every time I’ve had to use Windows or MacOS for something, I’ve experienced even worse over there. In some ways I think we should all be disgusted that the desktop UI has largely stagnated while still having so many odd issues across the board, but at the same time, I guess pleased that they have all largely caught up to each other in most regards and are all “about as good as it gets, for now”. That said, I find myself gravitating towards Linux if for no reason other than, if all else fails, the source code is there for me to modify if and when I desire.