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I think people are correctly stating that desktop Linux problems are not correctly addressed, and their own desktop environment is unlikely to make a positive d

I think people are correctly stating that desktop Linux problems are not correctly addressed, and their own desktop environment is unlikely to make a positive difference. Its essentially a hobby rust project of a tech company, no different than something like project ARA in google except its in software. System76 made it easier for some users to use with simple QOL features like by bundling the nvidia driver, and some addons for gnome, but their hardware is nothing special (Clevo OEM with 1080p screens, their laptop doesn't seem to have good aftermarket or even the option to replace the keyboard, the battery is internal only, the aftermarket for repair is going to be very expensive), not priced competitively, Windows default hardware like the Thinkpad I use don't lack any compatibility and I never had an issue with any Intel computers in the last decade. A business class laptop with a good aftermarket from OEMs such as the Thinkpad, Elitebook, and Latitude will allow your Linux laptop to have a very long lifespan since you can supply it with cheap replacement parts. They are not going to be able to replicate that aspect unless they sell as many laptops for years, although its possible they could just have computers that adapt to those parts I doubt that will happen. I support their removal of Intel ME, its probably a reaction to Dell offering the same for their hardware, but its differentiation that is refreshing is that its a company sells a coreboot computer. https://blog.system76.com/post/168050597573/system76-me-firmware-updates-plan https://blog.system76.com/post/168050597573/system76-me-firm... The Linux desktop has a fragmented problem and this is going to fragment it more. Linux for servers rallied around universal CLI interfaces, and the most usable and successful consumer Linux is android (you can install launchers but they all hook the same way and there is a default). Pinephone and Librem do the opposite and are essentially imitating ways that failed desktop Linux and are doomed to fail by fragmenting phone GUIs. Every problem will cause a fork and nothing users care about will be fixed, but you’ll be able to and essentially forced to make decisions about the many interfaces, how every fork has another way of doing it differently, and because they’re all essentially nothing more than patches that didn’t get upstreamed they’ll be abandoned.

tarkin2 5y ago
> I think people are correctly stating that Linux problems are not correctly addressed For example?
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I mentioned fragmentation which this is going to make worst. To reiterate, lets say you are a new Linux user, and you see there's tons of linux DE, there are over 600 links for new linux users about opinions on what the best desktop environment is, you are not just given choice, you are forced into choosing GNOME, MATE, CINNAMON, KDE, LxQT, LXDE, XFCE, i3, i3-gaps, awesomeWM, fluxbox, Deepin, Budgie, Pantheon, Enlighten etc and getting used to their apps and settings. Not only that, the distro with its own package manager will need to support that DE, and you will need to rely on them to update it and fix bugs you will encounter. You can buy the System76 one you will get their DE and will probably need to stay on their forums for help, so why would you want to switch to linux? Just because you heard it was supposed to be easier to use and in reality even before you used it and did some light research you'd find the deluge of choices overwhelming and not easy.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Fragmentation is such a silly argument these days when you can install Steam, Spotify, Discord and Telegram on literally every standard Unix-like system these days. The "average person" you're describing isn't going to care about their package manager, their DE or their GTK theme, and why should they? 10 years ago, people used to complain about all these things that Linux couldn't do, and how that was the real reason it died. Nowadays that argument seems to have morphed into "there are to many ways to do things!" which seems pretty shallow to me.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      According to you they don’t care about the DE, so System76 won’t help anyone by making a new one. Normal people according to you don’t care about user interface or ease of use (everyone adopted to Windows 8’s tiles and applauded the end of the outdated start menu), program support (aka package managers with prepackaged binaries which don’t matter since new Linux users can install from compiling source code), themes (beautiful interfaces and clashing UI don’t matter to new Linux users only advanced users). If package managers didn’t matter, and you think the average new user wants to install Discord through command line you’re far too disconnected from reality. https://itsfoss.com/install-discord-linux/#traditional-method https://itsfoss.com/install-discord-linux/#traditional-metho... snaps and flatpak are slower so if package managers don’t matter you’re saying new Linux users will be happy with slow launches, worst performance and forced updates. Linux 10 years ago was simultaneously not able to do things people cared about and had tons of DE you could choose from, which is the point. More DE is not the solution. Linux fragmentation doesn’t solve the issues people care about, GIMP was just as capable as photoshop but they insisted on 3 or more separate windows for their user interface, and only recently was that changed for instance but imagine if they just made different photoshop clones instead of fixing it.

tarkin2 5y ago

> I think people are correctly stating that Linux problems are not correctly addressed For example?

GhettoComputers 5y ago
I mentioned fragmentation which this is going to make worst. To reiterate, lets say you are a new Linux user, and you see there's tons of linux DE, there are over 600 links for new linux users about opinions on what the best desktop environment is, you are not just given choice, you are forced into choosing GNOME, MATE, CINNAMON, KDE, LxQT, LXDE, XFCE, i3, i3-gaps, awesomeWM, fluxbox, Deepin, Budgie, Pantheon, Enlighten etc and getting used to their apps and settings. Not only that, the distro with its own package manager will need to support that DE, and you will need to rely on them to update it and fix bugs you will encounter. You can buy the System76 one you will get their DE and will probably need to stay on their forums for help, so why would you want to switch to linux? Just because you heard it was supposed to be easier to use and in reality even before you used it and did some light research you'd find the deluge of choices overwhelming and not easy.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Fragmentation is such a silly argument these days when you can install Steam, Spotify, Discord and Telegram on literally every standard Unix-like system these days. The "average person" you're describing isn't going to care about their package manager, their DE or their GTK theme, and why should they? 10 years ago, people used to complain about all these things that Linux couldn't do, and how that was the real reason it died. Nowadays that argument seems to have morphed into "there are to many ways to do things!" which seems pretty shallow to me.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    According to you they don’t care about the DE, so System76 won’t help anyone by making a new one. Normal people according to you don’t care about user interface or ease of use (everyone adopted to Windows 8’s tiles and applauded the end of the outdated start menu), program support (aka package managers with prepackaged binaries which don’t matter since new Linux users can install from compiling source code), themes (beautiful interfaces and clashing UI don’t matter to new Linux users only advanced users). If package managers didn’t matter, and you think the average new user wants to install Discord through command line you’re far too disconnected from reality. https://itsfoss.com/install-discord-linux/#traditional-method https://itsfoss.com/install-discord-linux/#traditional-metho... snaps and flatpak are slower so if package managers don’t matter you’re saying new Linux users will be happy with slow launches, worst performance and forced updates. Linux 10 years ago was simultaneously not able to do things people cared about and had tons of DE you could choose from, which is the point. More DE is not the solution. Linux fragmentation doesn’t solve the issues people care about, GIMP was just as capable as photoshop but they insisted on 3 or more separate windows for their user interface, and only recently was that changed for instance but imagine if they just made different photoshop clones instead of fixing it.