5 ms·

> fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues. I'm NOT trying

> fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues. I'm NOT trying to provoke, troll, pick a fight, etc. but...This list correlates very well with the Western diet & lifestyle. Could Covid be contributing? Yes, of course. But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That said, perhaps the same can be said for the survivors? That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? For example, respirators save lives, but they cause can infection and have other side effects. I'm not disputing the dangers of Covid. But context matters, and when it comes to health, healthcare, and analysis we'd be naive to ignore the context (i.e., the Western diet + lifestyle was already a known danger).

pibechorro 5y ago
80% plus obesity for those badly affected. Its not a coincidence. When the herd is weak, it only takes a nudge to have severe die offs. The natural immunity we need to collectively prioritize is maximum health before we get tested by nature.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
garganzol 5y ago
>That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. I agree. But it is hard to find a specific correlation. The neurological complications after Covid affect people of all ages except very young. Even the late teenagers (18 yr) can be affected, albeit to a lesser degree. > In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? Some antibiotics like Levofloxacin and Fluoroquinolone are known to induce a mitochondrial disease in some people. This may be a contributing factor.
- podgaj 5y ago
  The only thread I can find that runs through all these disorders is an inability to balance oxidative stress. The reason symptomatic COVID will vary so much between people is that genetics, nutrition, and life stress are all variables that no one is tracking. And the reason fluoroquinolones hurt mitochondria is that they produce an enormous oxidative stress burned on the mitochondria, depleting SOD and Glutathione. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ Why do you think people with, say diabetes, are prone to worse outcomes? It is because they are already unable to handle oxidative stress: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    Again, not being snarky but diabetes is a (worse) outcome (of the Western diet + lifestyle). The fact that its been normalized and can be treated (with meds) doesn't change the fact it is a risky and dangerous disease. Blaming Covid is convenient but it's also deceptive. Is there any science that says diabetes makes you stronger?
    - garganzol 5y ago
      Well, it may be that type 2 diabetes has the same mitochondrial roots. Specifically, the oxidative phosphorylation pathway gets wrecked in T2DM. This produces ROS. A lot of ROS, and it looks like the very same defect occurs in long Covid patients. And some of them become type 2 diabetics out of nowhere. But. I was able to observe, diagnose and treat one person with such condition. She had Covid in August 2020, then vaccinated in 2021 and had the second Covid in August 2021. All episodes were not severe, just usual cold. During the second Covid, at the very start of illness, she started to develop the signs of POTS. She was administered B1 TTFD, B3 Nicotinamide Riboside, multivitamin, D and C. POTS quickly resolved in 1 week. After that, I had a hard time talking her to continue the medications. She believed that she was strong enough already. All went seemingly well. She totally got well and fully recovered. On occasional walk I told her about mitochondria, ATP synthesis, electron transport chain, suffering people with burning feet and hands, just for kicks. She told me that I was a mad scientist, that all such diseases are designed by nature to make the Darwin selection work etc. And that I should not really care as people are not able to value that. The next day we were amid a walk again and that time it was 12 km (7.5 miles) distance. In the middle of the route, she had her first panic attack. All of a sudden, her breath rate increased significantly (hyperventilation) and face were starting to cover in large redish blumishes. She then told me that her knee muscles are going to collapse (miopathy) and she may fall. She felt the need for sugar and water. We were able to go into gas station and get a sweet snack. I estimated the volume corresponding to 15 g of sugar and gave it to here. Panic attack had stopped like it did not happen at all. Most people will be puzzled by this situation, but it was clear as day to me. Her oxidative phosphorylation pathway got inhibited and she became unable to consume the usual levels of glucose from the blood. Her ATP production was down. When ATP production became critically low, the nervous system began to panic and the endocrinal and cardiovascular systems entered into compensatory state, trying to increase oxygen saturation (hyperventilation), the bloodflow (tachycardia) and glucose levels to overcompensate the ever decreasing ATP production. Once she ate 15 g of sugar compensation of ATP production was reached and she stabilized. Attack was stopped right there. She had a stroke of false hypoglycemia and it was resolved now. Important observation - this occurred during the long walk which depletes ATP faster due to physical load. Next morning, I measured her blood glucose level. She went into diabetic area (7.4 mmol/L), despite having an absolute healthy glucose levels (5.2 mmol/L) months before. I immediately suggested the therapy targeted on mitochondrial ETC. B1 TTFD, B3 (Nicotinamd Riboside), Multivitamin Complex, C, D. This time, I extended the list of supplements with Q10, alpha-lipoic acid, L-Carnitine and Benfotiamine given the seriousness of situation. Her glucose uptake were gradually improving. After 3 weeks of therapy she had 5.5 mmol/L fasting glucose level which was healthy and totally fine. No diabetes. We continued with that route for 1 more month, then gradually downgrading to Q10, alpha-lipoic acid and B1 (100mg HCL supportive dose). She was on stable 5.2 mmol/L fasting glucose levels which is excellent. Currently she is on Q10 60 mg + B1 HCL 100 mg every other day. No signs of regression. We will drop the medications in month or two. Was I able to treat the diabetes? Probably no. What I've treated is a long Covid syndrome that could lead to diabetes and variety of other induced pathologies. Why? Because science frees from suffering and I like to help people, despite all their flaws. I hope that someone somewhere will find this information helpful.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That's generally true for all disease. Disease preys upon the weak.
- rkk3 5y ago
  Not necessarily, the 1918 Flu Pandemic for example mostly killed young adults rather than elderly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    That's not what that chart says. It says "In addition to killing babies, small children and elderly, it killed an unusually large number of young adults." It creates a W shape rather a U shape. The higher figures are still the youngest and oldest.
    - rkk3 5y ago
      For 1918 Flu 99% of deaths in US were people under 65 vs 24% deaths under 65 for Covid-19... "nearly half the deaths the were people 20-40" in the US, compared with 2% of deaths for Covid The chart says people less <1 or >85 were killed at a higher rate than people 25-35, but those were significantly smaller populations. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        I don't really follow where you are getting your data. The link in this comment only seems to show Covid data and no Spanish flu data (unless I'm missing something) and the Wikipedia article indicates we don't have firm numbers even for the overall death toll of the Spanish flu. It's generally true that disease preys upon the weak. That's not something that stands out to me, personally, as a special observation about the current pandemic. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule, but I don't really know why you are engaging in this way. From my end, it looks like pedantry and it looks like pointless pedantry in this case. I don't see how it casts light on our current crisis. I'm interested in better understanding our current crisis in hopes of finding a path forward.

pibechorro 5y ago

80% plus obesity for those badly affected. Its not a coincidence. When the herd is weak, it only takes a nudge to have severe die offs. The natural immunity we need to collectively prioritize is maximum health before we get tested by nature.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

garganzol 5y ago

>That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. I agree. But it is hard to find a specific correlation. The neurological complications after Covid affect people of all ages except very young. Even the late teenagers (18 yr) can be affected, albeit to a lesser degree. > In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? Some antibiotics like Levofloxacin and Fluoroquinolone are known to induce a mitochondrial disease in some people. This may be a contributing factor.

podgaj 5y ago
The only thread I can find that runs through all these disorders is an inability to balance oxidative stress. The reason symptomatic COVID will vary so much between people is that genetics, nutrition, and life stress are all variables that no one is tracking. And the reason fluoroquinolones hurt mitochondria is that they produce an enormous oxidative stress burned on the mitochondria, depleting SOD and Glutathione. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ Why do you think people with, say diabetes, are prone to worse outcomes? It is because they are already unable to handle oxidative stress: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Again, not being snarky but diabetes is a (worse) outcome (of the Western diet + lifestyle). The fact that its been normalized and can be treated (with meds) doesn't change the fact it is a risky and dangerous disease. Blaming Covid is convenient but it's also deceptive. Is there any science that says diabetes makes you stronger?
  - garganzol 5y ago
    Well, it may be that type 2 diabetes has the same mitochondrial roots. Specifically, the oxidative phosphorylation pathway gets wrecked in T2DM. This produces ROS. A lot of ROS, and it looks like the very same defect occurs in long Covid patients. And some of them become type 2 diabetics out of nowhere. But. I was able to observe, diagnose and treat one person with such condition. She had Covid in August 2020, then vaccinated in 2021 and had the second Covid in August 2021. All episodes were not severe, just usual cold. During the second Covid, at the very start of illness, she started to develop the signs of POTS. She was administered B1 TTFD, B3 Nicotinamide Riboside, multivitamin, D and C. POTS quickly resolved in 1 week. After that, I had a hard time talking her to continue the medications. She believed that she was strong enough already. All went seemingly well. She totally got well and fully recovered. On occasional walk I told her about mitochondria, ATP synthesis, electron transport chain, suffering people with burning feet and hands, just for kicks. She told me that I was a mad scientist, that all such diseases are designed by nature to make the Darwin selection work etc. And that I should not really care as people are not able to value that. The next day we were amid a walk again and that time it was 12 km (7.5 miles) distance. In the middle of the route, she had her first panic attack. All of a sudden, her breath rate increased significantly (hyperventilation) and face were starting to cover in large redish blumishes. She then told me that her knee muscles are going to collapse (miopathy) and she may fall. She felt the need for sugar and water. We were able to go into gas station and get a sweet snack. I estimated the volume corresponding to 15 g of sugar and gave it to here. Panic attack had stopped like it did not happen at all. Most people will be puzzled by this situation, but it was clear as day to me. Her oxidative phosphorylation pathway got inhibited and she became unable to consume the usual levels of glucose from the blood. Her ATP production was down. When ATP production became critically low, the nervous system began to panic and the endocrinal and cardiovascular systems entered into compensatory state, trying to increase oxygen saturation (hyperventilation), the bloodflow (tachycardia) and glucose levels to overcompensate the ever decreasing ATP production. Once she ate 15 g of sugar compensation of ATP production was reached and she stabilized. Attack was stopped right there. She had a stroke of false hypoglycemia and it was resolved now. Important observation - this occurred during the long walk which depletes ATP faster due to physical load. Next morning, I measured her blood glucose level. She went into diabetic area (7.4 mmol/L), despite having an absolute healthy glucose levels (5.2 mmol/L) months before. I immediately suggested the therapy targeted on mitochondrial ETC. B1 TTFD, B3 (Nicotinamd Riboside), Multivitamin Complex, C, D. This time, I extended the list of supplements with Q10, alpha-lipoic acid, L-Carnitine and Benfotiamine given the seriousness of situation. Her glucose uptake were gradually improving. After 3 weeks of therapy she had 5.5 mmol/L fasting glucose level which was healthy and totally fine. No diabetes. We continued with that route for 1 more month, then gradually downgrading to Q10, alpha-lipoic acid and B1 (100mg HCL supportive dose). She was on stable 5.2 mmol/L fasting glucose levels which is excellent. Currently she is on Q10 60 mg + B1 HCL 100 mg every other day. No signs of regression. We will drop the medications in month or two. Was I able to treat the diabetes? Probably no. What I've treated is a long Covid syndrome that could lead to diabetes and variety of other induced pathologies. Why? Because science frees from suffering and I like to help people, despite all their flaws. I hope that someone somewhere will find this information helpful.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That's generally true for all disease. Disease preys upon the weak.

rkk3 5y ago
Not necessarily, the 1918 Flu Pandemic for example mostly killed young adults rather than elderly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  That's not what that chart says. It says "In addition to killing babies, small children and elderly, it killed an unusually large number of young adults." It creates a W shape rather a U shape. The higher figures are still the youngest and oldest.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    For 1918 Flu 99% of deaths in US were people under 65 vs 24% deaths under 65 for Covid-19... "nearly half the deaths the were people 20-40" in the US, compared with 2% of deaths for Covid The chart says people less <1 or >85 were killed at a higher rate than people 25-35, but those were significantly smaller populations. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I don't really follow where you are getting your data. The link in this comment only seems to show Covid data and no Spanish flu data (unless I'm missing something) and the Wikipedia article indicates we don't have firm numbers even for the overall death toll of the Spanish flu. It's generally true that disease preys upon the weak. That's not something that stands out to me, personally, as a special observation about the current pandemic. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule, but I don't really know why you are engaging in this way. From my end, it looks like pedantry and it looks like pointless pedantry in this case. I don't see how it casts light on our current crisis. I'm interested in better understanding our current crisis in hopes of finding a path forward.