5 ms·

Could tryptophane supplementation help here?

by carlmr 5y ago

podgaj 5y ago
No, and it wold probably make things worse if this is true. Tryptophan is turned into NAD but if you do not have enough of the cofactors to make NAD down the Kynurenine pathway then you will just deplete yourself of cofactors even further. I do not think depletion of NAD is the the issue honestly, but if it is the real issue is a B2 or B6 deficiency after infection. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publication/341592342/figure/fig2/AS:894263525122049@1590220447284/Tryptophan-metabolism-via-the-kynurenine-pathway-IDO-indoleamine-2-3-dioxygenase-TDO.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publica...
garganzol 5y ago
Maybe. However tryptophan by itself won't heal you once the pathology onset has occurred. The usual scheme is to use a combination of medications in order to unblock the electron transport chain while inhibiting the inflammatory response. If you want to know more, read the comments section of the video above. Some of them contain hints and even actionable recipes. Keywords, hints, typical doses: B1/Thiamin (in form of HCL 100-2000 mg, Benfothiamin 100-600 mg, TTFD 50-800 mg), B3/Niacin (in form of nicotinic acid - never, nicotinamide 250 mg, Nicotinamide Riboside 100-400 mg), Mg (200-400 mg), K (50-300 mg), B2 (50-400 mg), C (150-500 mg), D (5000 I.U. - 400 000 I.U), Aspirin (150-500 mg), CoQ10 (60-200 mg), Alpha-lipoic Acid (60-300 mg), Acetyl-L-Carnitine (500 mg), Zinc (20-50 mg), Copper (2mg), N-Acetyl-Cysteine/NAC (600-1800 mg), Betaine (50 mg), Quercetin (250 mg), Trans-reservatrol (150 mg), Multivitamin Complex (obligatory when large doses of B vitamins are taken). Please note that provided list of medications is for reference only. Those medications are carefully combined to reach the desired therapeutic effect. B1, B3, Multivitamin Complex, C, D and Mg are essential elements. Others are used in more involved cases. Nutritional correction is obligatory: totally no alcohol, minimize high carbs (< 50 g of sugar per day), totally avoid sweeteners (with the exception of stevia), avoid highly-processed food. Milk and meat are god send for people in that condition. Avoid the prolonged periods of hunger but be careful to not eat too much. Having a slightest sense of hunger after the meal is beneficial. Make at least 2 hour intervals between meals.
- podgaj 5y ago
  As someone with a Complex I Deficiency I did not know you could "unblock" the electron transport chain. Taking these supplements without knowing your genetics will result in undue suffering and confusion. And to speak of the election transport chain and not include Manganese and ascorbic acid means this comment should not be taken at face value. https://www.jci.org/articles/view/118798 https://www.jci.org/articles/view/118798 In fact, it is the oxidative stress that damages the ETC. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21699493/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21699493/ As far as ME/CFS and its' similarities with Long Covid, the answer is here is fixing an ROS imbalance as well, IMHO: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095882X20300839 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095882X2...
  - garganzol 5y ago
    > Complex I Deficiency Acquired or genetical? > Manganese and ascorbic acid Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation. Multivitamin complexes do contain manganese, but one needs to check. Did not know they were essential. Thanks for the information. Besides that, there is a work of Dr Costantini that lays down the basis of ETC "restart" with full enzymatical saturation. Take a look [1]. Definitely works for some people, sometimes to a great surprise after decades of suffering. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA
    - xattt 5y ago
      > Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation. Ascorbic acid is Vitamin C.
    - podgaj 5y ago
      It's genetic, and partial. Unless you know your genetics, telling someone what they need is useless. I know my genetics. And I tried Thiamine years ago. It made me manic, most likely because my real issue was a depletion of manganese that not only increase superoxide damage in my mitochondria, but also inhibited my TCA cycle in the wrong location. Taking thiamine pushed my TCA cycle but since my TCA cycle was inhibited, the metabolites that were created caused other issues. Or it could have been that the Thiamine meant a build up of NADH that my Complex I could not handle and it just created more (e-) in my mitochondrial matrix and then more superoxdides.

Could tryptophane supplementation help here?

by carlmr 5y ago

Could tryptophane supplementation help here?

No, and it wold probably make things worse if this is true. Tryptophan is turned into NAD but if you do not have enough of the cofactors to make NAD down the Kynurenine pathway then you will just deplete yourself of cofactors even further. I do not think depletion of NAD is the the issue honestly, but if it is the real issue is a B2 or B6 deficiency after infection. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publication/341592342/figure/fig2/AS:894263525122049@1590220447284/Tryptophan-metabolism-via-the-kynurenine-pathway-IDO-indoleamine-2-3-dioxygenase-TDO.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publica...

garganzol 5y ago

Maybe. However tryptophan by itself won't heal you once the pathology onset has occurred. The usual scheme is to use a combination of medications in order to unblock the electron transport chain while inhibiting the inflammatory response. If you want to know more, read the comments section of the video above. Some of them contain hints and even actionable recipes. Keywords, hints, typical doses: B1/Thiamin (in form of HCL 100-2000 mg, Benfothiamin 100-600 mg, TTFD 50-800 mg), B3/Niacin (in form of nicotinic acid - never, nicotinamide 250 mg, Nicotinamide Riboside 100-400 mg), Mg (200-400 mg), K (50-300 mg), B2 (50-400 mg), C (150-500 mg), D (5000 I.U. - 400 000 I.U), Aspirin (150-500 mg), CoQ10 (60-200 mg), Alpha-lipoic Acid (60-300 mg), Acetyl-L-Carnitine (500 mg), Zinc (20-50 mg), Copper (2mg), N-Acetyl-Cysteine/NAC (600-1800 mg), Betaine (50 mg), Quercetin (250 mg), Trans-reservatrol (150 mg), Multivitamin Complex (obligatory when large doses of B vitamins are taken). Please note that provided list of medications is for reference only. Those medications are carefully combined to reach the desired therapeutic effect. B1, B3, Multivitamin Complex, C, D and Mg are essential elements. Others are used in more involved cases. Nutritional correction is obligatory: totally no alcohol, minimize high carbs (< 50 g of sugar per day), totally avoid sweeteners (with the exception of stevia), avoid highly-processed food. Milk and meat are god send for people in that condition. Avoid the prolonged periods of hunger but be careful to not eat too much. Having a slightest sense of hunger after the meal is beneficial. Make at least 2 hour intervals between meals.

podgaj 5y ago
As someone with a Complex I Deficiency I did not know you could "unblock" the electron transport chain. Taking these supplements without knowing your genetics will result in undue suffering and confusion. And to speak of the election transport chain and not include Manganese and ascorbic acid means this comment should not be taken at face value. https://www.jci.org/articles/view/118798 https://www.jci.org/articles/view/118798 In fact, it is the oxidative stress that damages the ETC. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21699493/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21699493/ As far as ME/CFS and its' similarities with Long Covid, the answer is here is fixing an ROS imbalance as well, IMHO: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095882X20300839 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095882X2...
- garganzol 5y ago
  > Complex I Deficiency Acquired or genetical? > Manganese and ascorbic acid Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation. Multivitamin complexes do contain manganese, but one needs to check. Did not know they were essential. Thanks for the information. Besides that, there is a work of Dr Costantini that lays down the basis of ETC "restart" with full enzymatical saturation. Take a look [1]. Definitely works for some people, sometimes to a great surprise after decades of suffering. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA
  - xattt 5y ago
    > Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation. Ascorbic acid is Vitamin C.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    It's genetic, and partial. Unless you know your genetics, telling someone what they need is useless. I know my genetics. And I tried Thiamine years ago. It made me manic, most likely because my real issue was a depletion of manganese that not only increase superoxide damage in my mitochondria, but also inhibited my TCA cycle in the wrong location. Taking thiamine pushed my TCA cycle but since my TCA cycle was inhibited, the metabolites that were created caused other issues. Or it could have been that the Thiamine meant a build up of NADH that my Complex I could not handle and it just created more (e-) in my mitochondrial matrix and then more superoxdides.