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That initial comment asked to > detail why which you dind't. You just answered with a general attack on the Gnome devs saying - I paraphrase - that they are a

by esarbe 5y ago

That initial comment asked to > detail why which you dind't. You just answered with a general attack on the Gnome devs saying - I paraphrase - that they are arseholes that don't to your bidding. I then tried to get more detail and asked explicitly for your experiences with contributing to Gnome, because I didn't have bad experiences at all. So far, you didn't tell me if and what you tried to contribute or what exactly your experiences were. > This is amazing circular logic... If anything, it amazing lack at deflection. Common, spit it out. Where did the bad Gnome devs touch you? > Linux has too many DE's because projects like gnome have a narrow focus that only care about their own goals and give 2 shits less if you do not agree with them. That is fine... but then people need to stop saying "dont fork, contribute" Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. Instead it was "Why cannot you contribute" to which you just answer with a stale old general and lame excuse ("They have a narrow focus and only care about their own goals" - no really, to they? The meanies!) that can be applied to every open source project out there. I'm sick and tired of people dumping on the Gnome devs. They are doing a great job and a promising idea of a desktop that goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Almost all of the complaints come from people that have neither the interest nor the ability to truly contribute and find it easier to simply complain and bitch about. Sad! If you truly want to contribute and better Gnome - convince them! Start by fixing papercuts and show them that you are able. Get involved at the design stage and bring in your brilliant ideas. Take over responsibility in the team and make sure that your good decision making powers are acknowledged in the team. Don't just jump in from the side with your one-trick-pony issue, shouting in their faces and then complain an moan if they don't immediately obey. That's lame.

syshum 5y ago
>>hat goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Which seems for both gnome, and now windows even means "Lets look at what Apple is doing and copy them" I hate Mac OS, I do not want to use a Mac, if I did I would buy a Mac. The fact that gnome wants to mirror their style and function to that of Apple is the problem I (and MANY MANY MANY others) have and they do not see to have any desire to change. >Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. It has been expressed mutiple points in this thread, and is the over arching implication in "why dont you just contribute to make gnome better" The reason is because "better" is subjective and subjectively people like the popos devs that are making their own DE's and others that have walked away from gnome feel gnome is worse, not better, and the people that control gnome have no interest in making it "better" for users like me.
- esarbe 5y ago
  > Which seems for both gnome, and now windows even means "Lets look at what Apple is doing and copy them" That's an accusation that gets thrown around from time to time. In what aspect do you think that Gnome is copying Apple/Mac? > It has been expressed mutiple points in this thread, and is the over arching implication in "why dont you just contribute to make gnome better" I'm only talking about the thread back to the root of the discussion that we're (hopefully) having. It's possible that this was expressed somewhere else in this HN discussion but not by me and not by the OP (of the thread). > the people that control gnome have no interest in making it "better" for users like me. Well, yes. They don't. In my opinion, that has multiple reasons: 1) There are no 'users like me'. Let me explain. There's a bunch of very vocal (former/one-time/ongoing) Gnome users that are unhappy with various "things" that Gnome is doing. But these "things" are never the same and there is no agreement on how it ought to be done, just that Gnome is doing it "wrong". So there's no 'making it "better" for users like me". Any change could be loved by one part of that unhappy group, disliked by another, loathed by a third and seen as beside-the-point for the remainder. There are no "users like me". 2) No pitching in. When I hear people complaining about Gnome, about the devs and how awful they are and how mean, I seldom (never?) get any links to examples of bad interactions. It at all, I get pointers to the gitlab.gnome.org bug tracker where there's a bunch of complaints from the peanut gallery about how bad the Gnome devs are. Most of the complains come from users that have did not contribute to Gnome whatsoever. Except the complaints and rants and insults. I do have an idea why the Gnome devs would rather ignore the input of such users.

by esarbe 5y ago

syshum 5y ago

>>hat goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Which seems for both gnome, and now windows even means "Lets look at what Apple is doing and copy them" I hate Mac OS, I do not want to use a Mac, if I did I would buy a Mac. The fact that gnome wants to mirror their style and function to that of Apple is the problem I (and MANY MANY MANY others) have and they do not see to have any desire to change. >Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. It has been expressed mutiple points in this thread, and is the over arching implication in "why dont you just contribute to make gnome better" The reason is because "better" is subjective and subjectively people like the popos devs that are making their own DE's and others that have walked away from gnome feel gnome is worse, not better, and the people that control gnome have no interest in making it "better" for users like me.

esarbe 5y ago
> Which seems for both gnome, and now windows even means "Lets look at what Apple is doing and copy them" That's an accusation that gets thrown around from time to time. In what aspect do you think that Gnome is copying Apple/Mac? > It has been expressed mutiple points in this thread, and is the over arching implication in "why dont you just contribute to make gnome better" I'm only talking about the thread back to the root of the discussion that we're (hopefully) having. It's possible that this was expressed somewhere else in this HN discussion but not by me and not by the OP (of the thread). > the people that control gnome have no interest in making it "better" for users like me. Well, yes. They don't. In my opinion, that has multiple reasons: 1) There are no 'users like me'. Let me explain. There's a bunch of very vocal (former/one-time/ongoing) Gnome users that are unhappy with various "things" that Gnome is doing. But these "things" are never the same and there is no agreement on how it ought to be done, just that Gnome is doing it "wrong". So there's no 'making it "better" for users like me". Any change could be loved by one part of that unhappy group, disliked by another, loathed by a third and seen as beside-the-point for the remainder. There are no "users like me". 2) No pitching in. When I hear people complaining about Gnome, about the devs and how awful they are and how mean, I seldom (never?) get any links to examples of bad interactions. It at all, I get pointers to the gitlab.gnome.org bug tracker where there's a bunch of complaints from the peanut gallery about how bad the Gnome devs are. Most of the complains come from users that have did not contribute to Gnome whatsoever. Except the complaints and rants and insults. I do have an idea why the Gnome devs would rather ignore the input of such users.