4 ms·

"Cars are killing millions of people. It's time to stop driving towards death." type of things to say.

by Jugurtha 5y ago

lupinglade 5y ago
Not wrong.
fsflover 5y ago
Sounds about right to me.
strogonoff 5y ago
I agree with this statement more than with the title of the article. Capitalism itself objectively is not bad, but it depends on good will of participants. (On the other hand, attempts at communism or socialism so far try to enforce such good will onto people, with predictable results.) Cars and heavily car-oriented (sub)urban areas, however, are just avoidable bad design.
- dmos62 5y ago
  Nitpick. The principal premise of capitalism is that pursuing self-interest leads to common good. In other words, good will, in the context of capitalism, is self-interest, which is not what you normally mean by good will: usually it implies some degree of selflessness.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Given honest participants acting in good faith, self-interest aligns with common good. You start a business that provides value and does it sustainably with care about the environment; I recognize that and support your business by being your customer and maybe investing in your company; you profit, I get the value, everyone benefits. Now, speculative investment, information asymmetry, short-term gain seeking, etc. kind of ruin the idea.
    - dmos62 5y ago
      It's all about how you define self-interest and whether your pursuit of self-interest is so short-sighted that it's effectively suicidal; which is what the trend has been. I think it's best to drop the term capitalism all together.
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        It doesn't require anything remotely close to total selflessness, just not abusing the market and abiding by its spirit would be enough. Sadly, the way many individuals and entities act is why the totalitarian straightjacket of zero-trust approaches a la “blockchain and reputation points for everything” seems appealing to some (not that I think it would help).
- Jugurtha 5y ago
  Yeah. I avoid driving because there's no metric in my life that's positively correlated with me driving (not seeing loved ones, not being paid, not learning) so I use ride hailing so that "I" do not drive, own a car, or spend time looking for parking. One fewer vehicle on the road. However, I also choose the time to move. When I worked in an office 18 kilometres away and took public transportation, I'd wake up at 0430 in the morning to avoid traffic. When I hired a cab, I'd still do the same and arrive very early at the office, and either leave very late, or very early to avoid traffic. Usual disclaimer: to each their situation. I have the flexibility to leave and come as I please, and now to work remotely, but on the other hand, horrible public transportation system (up to 6 hours daily. Heck we built our machine learning platform in part so we don't come to the office).
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > horrible public transportation system Changing this is exactly what you should understand by "time to stop driving towards death".
    - Jugurtha 5y ago
      It is what I understand, and my comment was a "poetic" version with a musical reference to Rob Dougan's "Speed me towards death". The litteral interpretation is slightly mocking the recent similar headlines about 'stop buying things' or 'stop shopping'. Let people stop buying subscriptions to their newspapers and see what kind of articles they'll then pen.

"Cars are killing millions of people. It's time to stop driving towards death." type of things to say.

lupinglade 5y ago

Not wrong.

fsflover 5y ago

Sounds about right to me.

strogonoff 5y ago

I agree with this statement more than with the title of the article. Capitalism itself objectively is not bad, but it depends on good will of participants. (On the other hand, attempts at communism or socialism so far try to enforce such good will onto people, with predictable results.) Cars and heavily car-oriented (sub)urban areas, however, are just avoidable bad design.

dmos62 5y ago
Nitpick. The principal premise of capitalism is that pursuing self-interest leads to common good. In other words, good will, in the context of capitalism, is self-interest, which is not what you normally mean by good will: usually it implies some degree of selflessness.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  Given honest participants acting in good faith, self-interest aligns with common good. You start a business that provides value and does it sustainably with care about the environment; I recognize that and support your business by being your customer and maybe investing in your company; you profit, I get the value, everyone benefits. Now, speculative investment, information asymmetry, short-term gain seeking, etc. kind of ruin the idea.
  - dmos62 5y ago
    It's all about how you define self-interest and whether your pursuit of self-interest is so short-sighted that it's effectively suicidal; which is what the trend has been. I think it's best to drop the term capitalism all together.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      It doesn't require anything remotely close to total selflessness, just not abusing the market and abiding by its spirit would be enough. Sadly, the way many individuals and entities act is why the totalitarian straightjacket of zero-trust approaches a la “blockchain and reputation points for everything” seems appealing to some (not that I think it would help).
Jugurtha 5y ago
Yeah. I avoid driving because there's no metric in my life that's positively correlated with me driving (not seeing loved ones, not being paid, not learning) so I use ride hailing so that "I" do not drive, own a car, or spend time looking for parking. One fewer vehicle on the road. However, I also choose the time to move. When I worked in an office 18 kilometres away and took public transportation, I'd wake up at 0430 in the morning to avoid traffic. When I hired a cab, I'd still do the same and arrive very early at the office, and either leave very late, or very early to avoid traffic. Usual disclaimer: to each their situation. I have the flexibility to leave and come as I please, and now to work remotely, but on the other hand, horrible public transportation system (up to 6 hours daily. Heck we built our machine learning platform in part so we don't come to the office).
- fsflover 5y ago
  > horrible public transportation system Changing this is exactly what you should understand by "time to stop driving towards death".
  - Jugurtha 5y ago
    It is what I understand, and my comment was a "poetic" version with a musical reference to Rob Dougan's "Speed me towards death". The litteral interpretation is slightly mocking the recent similar headlines about 'stop buying things' or 'stop shopping'. Let people stop buying subscriptions to their newspapers and see what kind of articles they'll then pen.