6 ms·

Some observations suggest that the illness depletes NAD, which in turn leads to uptake of tryptophan which is then depleted too. NAD production reserves get tot

Some observations suggest that the illness depletes NAD, which in turn leads to uptake of tryptophan which is then depleted too. NAD production reserves get totally exhausted leading to inhibition of electronic transport chain of mitochondria. This in turn leads to tissue hypoxia, increased inflammation and avalanche of processes typical for neurological injury. This also explains the inhibition of serotonin production - all tryptophan reserves (serotonin precursor) are redirected to NAD syhtesis. I cannot recommend this material enough [1]. Some quantative info on cellular respiration in Covid patients is presented at [2]. This sums up the symptoms of long Covid: fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues. This hypothesis also provides the basis for an actionable treatment plan, which is similar to treating Beriberi. Statistically 30% of Covid survivors are affected, regardless the severity of original illness. If your family member or you had a Covid you should be very alert. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY [2] https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpcell.00426.2020 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpcell.004...

hktlfnfnd 5y ago
How can a few days of viral infection deplete NAD for months? There are feedback loops which are supposed to fix this right away. Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident?
- garganzol 5y ago
  >How can a few days of viral infection deplete NAD for months? That's a mystery. A longer than usual disease progression fully depletes the NAD, while a flu does this partially? A more involved attack on mitochondria? On a general note, metabolism is like a self-supported recursive function. But when one stack frame collapses, the whole calculation breaks like a house of cards causing the interlocked dependencies of pathological phenotypes. >Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident? Not at all. For example, not all the labs can test for lactic acidosis. And even the ongoing lactic acidosis may be so localized that the measurement is negligible up to the error of measurement.
carlmr 5y ago
Could tryptophane supplementation help here?
- podgaj 5y ago
  No, and it wold probably make things worse if this is true. Tryptophan is turned into NAD but if you do not have enough of the cofactors to make NAD down the Kynurenine pathway then you will just deplete yourself of cofactors even further. I do not think depletion of NAD is the the issue honestly, but if it is the real issue is a B2 or B6 deficiency after infection. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publication/341592342/figure/fig2/AS:894263525122049@1590220447284/Tryptophan-metabolism-via-the-kynurenine-pathway-IDO-indoleamine-2-3-dioxygenase-TDO.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publica...
- garganzol 5y ago
  Maybe. However tryptophan by itself won't heal you once the pathology onset has occurred. The usual scheme is to use a combination of medications in order to unblock the electron transport chain while inhibiting the inflammatory response. If you want to know more, read the comments section of the video above. Some of them contain hints and even actionable recipes. Keywords, hints, typical doses: B1/Thiamin (in form of HCL 100-2000 mg, Benfothiamin 100-600 mg, TTFD 50-800 mg), B3/Niacin (in form of nicotinic acid - never, nicotinamide 250 mg, Nicotinamide Riboside 100-400 mg), Mg (200-400 mg), K (50-300 mg), B2 (50-400 mg), C (150-500 mg), D (5000 I.U. - 400 000 I.U), Aspirin (150-500 mg), CoQ10 (60-200 mg), Alpha-lipoic Acid (60-300 mg), Acetyl-L-Carnitine (500 mg), Zinc (20-50 mg), Copper (2mg), N-Acetyl-Cysteine/NAC (600-1800 mg), Betaine (50 mg), Quercetin (250 mg), Trans-reservatrol (150 mg), Multivitamin Complex (obligatory when large doses of B vitamins are taken). Please note that provided list of medications is for reference only. Those medications are carefully combined to reach the desired therapeutic effect. B1, B3, Multivitamin Complex, C, D and Mg are essential elements. Others are used in more involved cases. Nutritional correction is obligatory: totally no alcohol, minimize high carbs (< 50 g of sugar per day), totally avoid sweeteners (with the exception of stevia), avoid highly-processed food. Milk and meat are god send for people in that condition. Avoid the prolonged periods of hunger but be careful to not eat too much. Having a slightest sense of hunger after the meal is beneficial. Make at least 2 hour intervals between meals.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
> fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues. I'm NOT trying to provoke, troll, pick a fight, etc. but...This list correlates very well with the Western diet & lifestyle. Could Covid be contributing? Yes, of course. But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That said, perhaps the same can be said for the survivors? That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? For example, respirators save lives, but they cause can infection and have other side effects. I'm not disputing the dangers of Covid. But context matters, and when it comes to health, healthcare, and analysis we'd be naive to ignore the context (i.e., the Western diet + lifestyle was already a known danger).
- pibechorro 5y ago
  80% plus obesity for those badly affected. Its not a coincidence. When the herd is weak, it only takes a nudge to have severe die offs. The natural immunity we need to collectively prioritize is maximum health before we get tested by nature.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- garganzol 5y ago
  >That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. I agree. But it is hard to find a specific correlation. The neurological complications after Covid affect people of all ages except very young. Even the late teenagers (18 yr) can be affected, albeit to a lesser degree. > In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? Some antibiotics like Levofloxacin and Fluoroquinolone are known to induce a mitochondrial disease in some people. This may be a contributing factor.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    The only thread I can find that runs through all these disorders is an inability to balance oxidative stress. The reason symptomatic COVID will vary so much between people is that genetics, nutrition, and life stress are all variables that no one is tracking. And the reason fluoroquinolones hurt mitochondria is that they produce an enormous oxidative stress burned on the mitochondria, depleting SOD and Glutathione. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ Why do you think people with, say diabetes, are prone to worse outcomes? It is because they are already unable to handle oxidative stress: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
When I got COVID 6 months back, brain-fog was the only complication I had and it got me really worried as being physically disabled any cognitive impairment would mean I loose everything. Brain-fog to me was a mix of being dull & delirious. Since oxygen saturation and other vitals were at acceptable limits I was in home quarantine and there was no help(treatment) for brain-fog in specific where I live. Fortunately after two weeks, the signs of normal brain function returned and now I'm confident that my cognitive abilities are back to normal. But since I had COVID, I'm having digestive problems for certain foods(Greens) something which I have been consuming since childhood and abundantly for past several years for health reasons. Now I'm having digestive issues with almost all greens, Some severe(Moringa Oleifera). I heard similar experience about digestive problems to certain food items of a doctor in an Economist podcast about long-COVID.

hktlfnfnd 5y ago

How can a few days of viral infection deplete NAD for months? There are feedback loops which are supposed to fix this right away. Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident?

garganzol 5y ago
>How can a few days of viral infection deplete NAD for months? That's a mystery. A longer than usual disease progression fully depletes the NAD, while a flu does this partially? A more involved attack on mitochondria? On a general note, metabolism is like a self-supported recursive function. But when one stack frame collapses, the whole calculation breaks like a house of cards causing the interlocked dependencies of pathological phenotypes. >Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident? Not at all. For example, not all the labs can test for lactic acidosis. And even the ongoing lactic acidosis may be so localized that the measurement is negligible up to the error of measurement.

carlmr 5y ago

Could tryptophane supplementation help here?

podgaj 5y ago
No, and it wold probably make things worse if this is true. Tryptophan is turned into NAD but if you do not have enough of the cofactors to make NAD down the Kynurenine pathway then you will just deplete yourself of cofactors even further. I do not think depletion of NAD is the the issue honestly, but if it is the real issue is a B2 or B6 deficiency after infection. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publication/341592342/figure/fig2/AS:894263525122049@1590220447284/Tryptophan-metabolism-via-the-kynurenine-pathway-IDO-indoleamine-2-3-dioxygenase-TDO.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publica...
garganzol 5y ago
Maybe. However tryptophan by itself won't heal you once the pathology onset has occurred. The usual scheme is to use a combination of medications in order to unblock the electron transport chain while inhibiting the inflammatory response. If you want to know more, read the comments section of the video above. Some of them contain hints and even actionable recipes. Keywords, hints, typical doses: B1/Thiamin (in form of HCL 100-2000 mg, Benfothiamin 100-600 mg, TTFD 50-800 mg), B3/Niacin (in form of nicotinic acid - never, nicotinamide 250 mg, Nicotinamide Riboside 100-400 mg), Mg (200-400 mg), K (50-300 mg), B2 (50-400 mg), C (150-500 mg), D (5000 I.U. - 400 000 I.U), Aspirin (150-500 mg), CoQ10 (60-200 mg), Alpha-lipoic Acid (60-300 mg), Acetyl-L-Carnitine (500 mg), Zinc (20-50 mg), Copper (2mg), N-Acetyl-Cysteine/NAC (600-1800 mg), Betaine (50 mg), Quercetin (250 mg), Trans-reservatrol (150 mg), Multivitamin Complex (obligatory when large doses of B vitamins are taken). Please note that provided list of medications is for reference only. Those medications are carefully combined to reach the desired therapeutic effect. B1, B3, Multivitamin Complex, C, D and Mg are essential elements. Others are used in more involved cases. Nutritional correction is obligatory: totally no alcohol, minimize high carbs (< 50 g of sugar per day), totally avoid sweeteners (with the exception of stevia), avoid highly-processed food. Milk and meat are god send for people in that condition. Avoid the prolonged periods of hunger but be careful to not eat too much. Having a slightest sense of hunger after the meal is beneficial. Make at least 2 hour intervals between meals.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

> fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues. I'm NOT trying to provoke, troll, pick a fight, etc. but...This list correlates very well with the Western diet & lifestyle. Could Covid be contributing? Yes, of course. But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That said, perhaps the same can be said for the survivors? That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? For example, respirators save lives, but they cause can infection and have other side effects. I'm not disputing the dangers of Covid. But context matters, and when it comes to health, healthcare, and analysis we'd be naive to ignore the context (i.e., the Western diet + lifestyle was already a known danger).

pibechorro 5y ago
80% plus obesity for those badly affected. Its not a coincidence. When the herd is weak, it only takes a nudge to have severe die offs. The natural immunity we need to collectively prioritize is maximum health before we get tested by nature.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
garganzol 5y ago
>That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus. I agree. But it is hard to find a specific correlation. The neurological complications after Covid affect people of all ages except very young. Even the late teenagers (18 yr) can be affected, albeit to a lesser degree. > In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? Some antibiotics like Levofloxacin and Fluoroquinolone are known to induce a mitochondrial disease in some people. This may be a contributing factor.
- podgaj 5y ago
  The only thread I can find that runs through all these disorders is an inability to balance oxidative stress. The reason symptomatic COVID will vary so much between people is that genetics, nutrition, and life stress are all variables that no one is tracking. And the reason fluoroquinolones hurt mitochondria is that they produce an enormous oxidative stress burned on the mitochondria, depleting SOD and Glutathione. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/ Why do you think people with, say diabetes, are prone to worse outcomes? It is because they are already unable to handle oxidative stress: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

When I got COVID 6 months back, brain-fog was the only complication I had and it got me really worried as being physically disabled any cognitive impairment would mean I loose everything. Brain-fog to me was a mix of being dull & delirious. Since oxygen saturation and other vitals were at acceptable limits I was in home quarantine and there was no help(treatment) for brain-fog in specific where I live. Fortunately after two weeks, the signs of normal brain function returned and now I'm confident that my cognitive abilities are back to normal. But since I had COVID, I'm having digestive problems for certain foods(Greens) something which I have been consuming since childhood and abundantly for past several years for health reasons. Now I'm having digestive issues with almost all greens, Some severe(Moringa Oleifera). I heard similar experience about digestive problems to certain food items of a doctor in an Economist podcast about long-COVID.