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We have a whole economic system where price is a response to demand and scarcity. Most of economic output has no fundamental relation to the basics of survival,

We have a whole economic system where price is a response to demand and scarcity. Most of economic output has no fundamental relation to the basics of survival, as to purely exist to satisfy whimsical desires.

philosopher1234 5y ago
Yes, and that is not ideal, nor evidence of value.
- generalizations 5y ago
  If someone was willing to pay for it, it had value to them. That's value.
  - philosopher1234 5y ago
    If I want to murder people does murdering people have value?
    - medvezhenok 5y ago
      It can definitely have value. That's why bounties exist (or imagine a market for someone to assassinate Hitler). I think there's a conflation of value and value in a particular moral dimension here.
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        If the original comment was saying “crypto has value because people are willing to pay for it” that is tautological. There is a conflation, but it’s a motte and Bailey.
    - lifekaizen 5y ago
      The net value to society is likely negative since the impact on the target is large, and a society that allowed such things may see time horizons constrict. You raise some good points, though. I personally am probably coming with an unspoken understanding that 'given that something fits into a legal and moral structure, and we accept a certain definition of using something by choice as value' then paying more for that thing implies more value. Facebook is probably a good example of something in the grey area, connecting people has value, but generating demand is questionable, spreading misinformation is likely a large net negative.
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        Monetary value reflects demand, but demand does not always reflect utility or goodness. There is a demand for atrocity. The construction “NFTs are highly priced, thus they are desired, thus they are good” is full of holes. If I have a phobia of spiders, and a corresponding desire to eradicate them, does it follow that eradicating spiders is good? If I got my wish, I and the rest of the world would be worse off for it, but my desire exists none the less.

philosopher1234 5y ago

Yes, and that is not ideal, nor evidence of value.

generalizations 5y ago
If someone was willing to pay for it, it had value to them. That's value.
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  If I want to murder people does murdering people have value?
  - medvezhenok 5y ago
    It can definitely have value. That's why bounties exist (or imagine a market for someone to assassinate Hitler). I think there's a conflation of value and value in a particular moral dimension here.
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      If the original comment was saying “crypto has value because people are willing to pay for it” that is tautological. There is a conflation, but it’s a motte and Bailey.
  - lifekaizen 5y ago
    The net value to society is likely negative since the impact on the target is large, and a society that allowed such things may see time horizons constrict. You raise some good points, though. I personally am probably coming with an unspoken understanding that 'given that something fits into a legal and moral structure, and we accept a certain definition of using something by choice as value' then paying more for that thing implies more value. Facebook is probably a good example of something in the grey area, connecting people has value, but generating demand is questionable, spreading misinformation is likely a large net negative.
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      Monetary value reflects demand, but demand does not always reflect utility or goodness. There is a demand for atrocity. The construction “NFTs are highly priced, thus they are desired, thus they are good” is full of holes. If I have a phobia of spiders, and a corresponding desire to eradicate them, does it follow that eradicating spiders is good? If I got my wish, I and the rest of the world would be worse off for it, but my desire exists none the less.