4 ms·

This is thrilling to see and read, but a few paragraphs and photos in I get a sad nagging feeling knowing that today this type of thing would likely get us comp

by 0des 5y ago

This is thrilling to see and read, but a few paragraphs and photos in I get a sad nagging feeling knowing that today this type of thing would likely get us complicated or put in trouble in so many different ways (USA). I keep thinking "how dangerous it is to have photo evidence of this", and it overrides the part of my brain thinking "this is a story for the ages, and I'm glad there is photo evidence of this".

TeeMassive 5y ago
Pretty much what happened to Aaron Swartz.
- totalZero 5y ago
  Perhaps it's a bit flippant to make this not-obviously-true assertion without attaching any reasoning.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    Your comment is noted
goodpoint 5y ago
> or put in trouble in so many different ways (USA) Building a network puts you in trouble? Cooperation, technical skills and social competence is what universities are meant to teach. It's bad that an university could punish students for that... and quite appalling that people accept this state of affairs.
- ev1 5y ago
  Most universities already punish you for attaching anything to their network that isn't an end user device. I know a switch or router in my old dorm will result in a near instant switchport disable, even with DHCP off.
  - 0des 5y ago
    This combined with everything being so sensationalized. Inevitably someone's going to fire up bit torrent, get caught, and suddenly it turns into 'a sophisticated underground hacker cabal, formed right under our noses'.
  - LogonType10 5y ago
    Did your university have MAC based network access control? That's probably why.
    - aspenmayer 5y ago
      When did MAC spoofing go mainstream? I remember the Orinoco Gold WLAN PCMCIA cards being a go-to for that kind of thing back in the day. Now it seems like Alfa gear is the go-to for that kind of thing. The more things change, the more they stay the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_spoofing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_spoofing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_mode https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_mode https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORiNOCO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORiNOCO https://www.alfa.com.tw https://www.alfa.com.tw
- barkingcat 5y ago
  In the US you get threatened to be put in jail for viewing the source on an webpage.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 8bitsrule 5y ago
    Remember, a 'governor' is a device that regulates speed; the older ones use inertial force. You may choose to elect more efficient ones.
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    Has there been an actual case of that? EDIT: yes, and this is insane https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/10/viewing-website-html-code-is-not-illegal-or-hacking-prof-tells-missouri-gov/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/10/viewing-website-...
- LogonType10 5y ago
  University security teams (if they exist at all) have enough trouble enforcing security policies with university employees without having students setting up unauthorized devices. They don't want students running crappy vulnerable servers out of their dorm room, or pirating movies (the university gets a legal letter for that), or port scanning the network, or a whole host of other at best annoying things that aren't necessary to get an education. If you want to do that, rent your own infrastructure, or better yet practice that in a lab.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    Having been caught without ID while working at a university site as a contractor, I'm 100% certain that a university somewhere has carted some poor sod off to university prison. They are like extra powerful mall cops.
    - redis_mlc 5y ago
      1) When I do consulting for profs on campus, I ask for a uni library card. This is important because many students today are fearful of other people even when on campus transit with a driver, so you better have a verifiable reason why you should be there. 2) University cops in the US are usually real cops - armed and authorized to arrest or shoot you - not "mall cops."
      - lostlogin 5y ago
        Re 2), it wasn’t in the US, but yikes.
  - blip54321 5y ago
    I recall a lot of the things mentioned contributed significantly to the education of many of my peers from undergrad. If you assume your students are helpless immature idiots, it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
a-nikolaev 5y ago
As a person who lived in that dorm at the time, I don't think that the photo evidence is dangerous or incriminating for the author now. Maybe it could be ..somewhat.. incriminating at the time to share some of these details, but the existence of the network infrastructure was never a secret to the administration. Let me try to explain, the network was quite organic for that place and time, I guess: The dorms administration really had no idea what internet is, and while the network wasn't officially sanctioned, it wasn't (very) actively prohibited either. It wasn't regulated, and obviously was a nuisance for the people managing the dorms. But at the same time I don't remember anyone being punished for maintaining it. It existed in a gray area so to speak: The network provided a utility to the students, but the school did not want to be responsible for it and also did not provide any alternatives. So the school administration turned a blind eye to the network for the most part, I think, until it was finally officially legalized. Btw, I found a link to the dorms forum ("forum.local"): https://forumlocal.ru/ubbthreads.php https://forumlocal.ru/ubbthreads.php it still exists, and its topics are going back to the times described in the article. Some old moderators are also still there (!).

by 0des 5y ago

TeeMassive 5y ago

Pretty much what happened to Aaron Swartz.

totalZero 5y ago
Perhaps it's a bit flippant to make this not-obviously-true assertion without attaching any reasoning.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  Your comment is noted

goodpoint 5y ago

> or put in trouble in so many different ways (USA) Building a network puts you in trouble? Cooperation, technical skills and social competence is what universities are meant to teach. It's bad that an university could punish students for that... and quite appalling that people accept this state of affairs.

ev1 5y ago
Most universities already punish you for attaching anything to their network that isn't an end user device. I know a switch or router in my old dorm will result in a near instant switchport disable, even with DHCP off.
- 0des 5y ago
  This combined with everything being so sensationalized. Inevitably someone's going to fire up bit torrent, get caught, and suddenly it turns into 'a sophisticated underground hacker cabal, formed right under our noses'.
- LogonType10 5y ago
  Did your university have MAC based network access control? That's probably why.
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    When did MAC spoofing go mainstream? I remember the Orinoco Gold WLAN PCMCIA cards being a go-to for that kind of thing back in the day. Now it seems like Alfa gear is the go-to for that kind of thing. The more things change, the more they stay the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_spoofing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_spoofing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_mode https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_mode https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORiNOCO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORiNOCO https://www.alfa.com.tw https://www.alfa.com.tw
barkingcat 5y ago
In the US you get threatened to be put in jail for viewing the source on an webpage.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 8bitsrule 5y ago
  Remember, a 'governor' is a device that regulates speed; the older ones use inertial force. You may choose to elect more efficient ones.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  Has there been an actual case of that? EDIT: yes, and this is insane https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/10/viewing-website-html-code-is-not-illegal-or-hacking-prof-tells-missouri-gov/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/10/viewing-website-...
LogonType10 5y ago
University security teams (if they exist at all) have enough trouble enforcing security policies with university employees without having students setting up unauthorized devices. They don't want students running crappy vulnerable servers out of their dorm room, or pirating movies (the university gets a legal letter for that), or port scanning the network, or a whole host of other at best annoying things that aren't necessary to get an education. If you want to do that, rent your own infrastructure, or better yet practice that in a lab.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  Having been caught without ID while working at a university site as a contractor, I'm 100% certain that a university somewhere has carted some poor sod off to university prison. They are like extra powerful mall cops.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    1) When I do consulting for profs on campus, I ask for a uni library card. This is important because many students today are fearful of other people even when on campus transit with a driver, so you better have a verifiable reason why you should be there. 2) University cops in the US are usually real cops - armed and authorized to arrest or shoot you - not "mall cops."
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      Re 2), it wasn’t in the US, but yikes.
- blip54321 5y ago
  I recall a lot of the things mentioned contributed significantly to the education of many of my peers from undergrad. If you assume your students are helpless immature idiots, it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

a-nikolaev 5y ago

As a person who lived in that dorm at the time, I don't think that the photo evidence is dangerous or incriminating for the author now. Maybe it could be ..somewhat.. incriminating at the time to share some of these details, but the existence of the network infrastructure was never a secret to the administration. Let me try to explain, the network was quite organic for that place and time, I guess: The dorms administration really had no idea what internet is, and while the network wasn't officially sanctioned, it wasn't (very) actively prohibited either. It wasn't regulated, and obviously was a nuisance for the people managing the dorms. But at the same time I don't remember anyone being punished for maintaining it. It existed in a gray area so to speak: The network provided a utility to the students, but the school did not want to be responsible for it and also did not provide any alternatives. So the school administration turned a blind eye to the network for the most part, I think, until it was finally officially legalized. Btw, I found a link to the dorms forum ("forum.local"): https://forumlocal.ru/ubbthreads.php https://forumlocal.ru/ubbthreads.php it still exists, and its topics are going back to the times described in the article. Some old moderators are also still there (!).