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People _were_ fine with lockdowns when implementing such measures helped avoid failures in the healthcare system (which is still kind of an issue in certain pla

People _were_ fine with lockdowns when implementing such measures helped avoid failures in the healthcare system (which is still kind of an issue in certain places in the United States, as ludocode above points out). No one is calling for lockdowns now, especially now that we have a safe, working vaccine and that we're seemingly close to actual treatments to reduce the death rate of COVID. Vaccines are free. So how is a vaccine mandate fucking over the working class? Or are you just disingenuously using them a cudgel to argue against policies which have the potential to save lives?

spookthesunset 5y ago
Vaccines are free. Anybody can get one. The end. Why people are tolerating the continuance of covid crap almost a year after the release of the vaccine is beyond me. Accept that covid isn’t going away and move on. Move on people. Forcing restrictions of any kind is complete crap. And masks == restrictions. So does vaccine mandates. And feel free to downvote me and call me names. I’ve taken heaps of verbal abuse and tons of gaslighting from plenty of real world people. Online people I don’t get phased by at all. Y’all need to realize that “the other side” has very rational arguments and is, quite frankly, correct in those arguments.
- ludocode 5y ago
  It's not that simple. The most important reason there are mask and vaccine mandates is that hospitals are already overloaded with unvaccinated COVID patients, which means no one else can get health care. Cancer patients (like my family member) are dying due to lack of treatment. People with sudden injuries (like from car crashes) can't get a bed in a hospital. If we completely remove all restrictions it would get much worse. Another reason is that not everyone can get vaccinated. My kids are under the age limit for the vaccine. Obviously their risk of death is low, but their risk of long COVID may not be. It bothers me that people who interact with my daughter on a daily basis (like two of the mothers of other children at her daycare) refuse to get vaccinated.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    How does any of what you said equate to vaccinated people being required to wear a mask? Do you not believe vaccines work? Why did you get one than? And the kids argument is plain wrong. Unlike many respiratory viruses out there, covid doesn’t really affect kids. Full stop. Full hospitals don’t matter. They are private companies who had more than a year and a half to prepare for this. Expecting all of society to bail them out? No thanks.
    - Toutouxc 5y ago
      > Do you not believe vaccines work? First, science (and medicine) and "believe" don't go well together. The data we have currently shows that the vaccines are moderately effective at preventing covid and very effective at preventing hospitalization. > Unlike many respiratory viruses out there, covid doesn’t really affect kids. Full stop. You need to provide some serious source for your full stops, because I'm sure I've seen papers that said otherwise. Also covid is not a virus, and it's these subtle misunderstandings and unclear statements that I hear more often from the anti-vaxx crowd, that also make me want to align with the other crowd a little bit more. > Full hospitals don’t matter. Until you or someone you love needs medical attention of any kind. Man, you said earlier that the other side "has very rational arguments", is that supposed to be it?
    - ludocode 5y ago
      Mask mandates are necessary mostly because there are still so many unvaccinated people. I generally agree that masks are no longer necessary among vaccinated people. My friends and I don't wear masks when we hang out. I'm okay with establishments dropping mask mandates as long as they have vaccine mandates. That isn't possible for places like grocery stores. I know you think we should all just drop our masks and stop caring if the unvaccinated get COVID. I get it, and I'd love to not care. But they fill the hospitals, wasting my tax dollars and affecting my family's ability to get treatment. > Full hospitals don’t matter. They are private companies who had more than a year and a half to prepare for this. Expecting all of society to bail them out? No thanks. This is so backwards I don't even know where to start. First of all, hospitals in my country, like many (most?) Western countries, are not private companies. Here they are owned and operated by municipalities. Second of all, you can't expect all hospitals to prepare for a massive temporary influx of patients. Where are they supposed to get the doctors and nurses? You think a whole country can just double or triple the amount of nurses in a year, and then lay them all off afterwards when the pandemic is over? Where are they supposed to get the space for these patients? You think it's quick to build a hospital? Where are they supposed to get the money to do this? Third of all, are you not worried about getting in a car wreck and having no ambulance available to come save you because they're all busy picking up unvaccinated COVID patients? Because this is a real thing that is happening right now. I'm guessing you're a fan of private health care; are you not worried about your costs spiking because you're now in competition for medical care with countless unvaccinated COVID patients? "Full hospitals don't matter" is the most backwards and ignorant comment I've seen on this. This absolutely matters to you. It directly affects your ability to get care.

spookthesunset 5y ago

Vaccines are free. Anybody can get one. The end. Why people are tolerating the continuance of covid crap almost a year after the release of the vaccine is beyond me. Accept that covid isn’t going away and move on. Move on people. Forcing restrictions of any kind is complete crap. And masks == restrictions. So does vaccine mandates. And feel free to downvote me and call me names. I’ve taken heaps of verbal abuse and tons of gaslighting from plenty of real world people. Online people I don’t get phased by at all. Y’all need to realize that “the other side” has very rational arguments and is, quite frankly, correct in those arguments.

ludocode 5y ago
It's not that simple. The most important reason there are mask and vaccine mandates is that hospitals are already overloaded with unvaccinated COVID patients, which means no one else can get health care. Cancer patients (like my family member) are dying due to lack of treatment. People with sudden injuries (like from car crashes) can't get a bed in a hospital. If we completely remove all restrictions it would get much worse. Another reason is that not everyone can get vaccinated. My kids are under the age limit for the vaccine. Obviously their risk of death is low, but their risk of long COVID may not be. It bothers me that people who interact with my daughter on a daily basis (like two of the mothers of other children at her daycare) refuse to get vaccinated.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  How does any of what you said equate to vaccinated people being required to wear a mask? Do you not believe vaccines work? Why did you get one than? And the kids argument is plain wrong. Unlike many respiratory viruses out there, covid doesn’t really affect kids. Full stop. Full hospitals don’t matter. They are private companies who had more than a year and a half to prepare for this. Expecting all of society to bail them out? No thanks.
  - Toutouxc 5y ago
    > Do you not believe vaccines work? First, science (and medicine) and "believe" don't go well together. The data we have currently shows that the vaccines are moderately effective at preventing covid and very effective at preventing hospitalization. > Unlike many respiratory viruses out there, covid doesn’t really affect kids. Full stop. You need to provide some serious source for your full stops, because I'm sure I've seen papers that said otherwise. Also covid is not a virus, and it's these subtle misunderstandings and unclear statements that I hear more often from the anti-vaxx crowd, that also make me want to align with the other crowd a little bit more. > Full hospitals don’t matter. Until you or someone you love needs medical attention of any kind. Man, you said earlier that the other side "has very rational arguments", is that supposed to be it?
  - ludocode 5y ago
    Mask mandates are necessary mostly because there are still so many unvaccinated people. I generally agree that masks are no longer necessary among vaccinated people. My friends and I don't wear masks when we hang out. I'm okay with establishments dropping mask mandates as long as they have vaccine mandates. That isn't possible for places like grocery stores. I know you think we should all just drop our masks and stop caring if the unvaccinated get COVID. I get it, and I'd love to not care. But they fill the hospitals, wasting my tax dollars and affecting my family's ability to get treatment. > Full hospitals don’t matter. They are private companies who had more than a year and a half to prepare for this. Expecting all of society to bail them out? No thanks. This is so backwards I don't even know where to start. First of all, hospitals in my country, like many (most?) Western countries, are not private companies. Here they are owned and operated by municipalities. Second of all, you can't expect all hospitals to prepare for a massive temporary influx of patients. Where are they supposed to get the doctors and nurses? You think a whole country can just double or triple the amount of nurses in a year, and then lay them all off afterwards when the pandemic is over? Where are they supposed to get the space for these patients? You think it's quick to build a hospital? Where are they supposed to get the money to do this? Third of all, are you not worried about getting in a car wreck and having no ambulance available to come save you because they're all busy picking up unvaccinated COVID patients? Because this is a real thing that is happening right now. I'm guessing you're a fan of private health care; are you not worried about your costs spiking because you're now in competition for medical care with countless unvaccinated COVID patients? "Full hospitals don't matter" is the most backwards and ignorant comment I've seen on this. This absolutely matters to you. It directly affects your ability to get care.