8 ms·

Why don't you think it's simply an issue of many people who go through CS programs failing to master the material? It's hard to imagine someone who did well in,

Why don't you think it's simply an issue of many people who go through CS programs failing to master the material? It's hard to imagine someone who did well in, say, Sedgewick's sequence at Princeton (which, by the way, is available on Coursera for free for anyone who didn't want to go to Princeton) - it's hard to imagine someone like that struggling with entry level tech interview questions

Apocryphon 5y ago
Is it? If it's so straightforward, then why don't all of the people who are struggling with these questions simply take the Coursera course? At the very least, these interviews require the applicant to be immediately familiar with any of the topics that might span a semester (or two) long course, so recall could be an issue.
- wly_cdgr 5y ago
  They probably should! Also, recall would only be an issue if they didn't truly master the material. Do you need to recall how to ride a bike after you've learned to do it?
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Perhaps not the most apt analogy, as that is a physiologically different form of memory: https://blog.cognifit.com/motor-memory/ https://blog.cognifit.com/motor-memory/ https://www.vanderbilt.edu/olli/class-materials/Neuroscience_April4th.pdf https://www.vanderbilt.edu/olli/class-materials/Neuroscience...
    - Jensson 5y ago
      You wont forget the basics of how to play chess either even if you haven't played it for 20 years, as long as you played it many times back then. I don't think there is a significant difference here, if you learned something properly then you wont forget it.
      - copenja 5y ago
        The human mind requires practice to retain skill and proficiency. Period. People who were solid engineers and later become executives, 20 years down the line many say they no longer can code. I've seen this many times. Where are you getting this concept that humans never forget skills? That's completely false.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        Come to think of it, the basics of playing chess is of insufficient complexity to be compared to an algorithm interview. More like being able to mount basic strategies and chess moves. Not sure how the average player would be able to recall those if they haven't played chess in a long time, because they were instead playing games derived from basic chess moves but with very different game mechanics.
        Jensson 5y ago
        If you demand more complexity then you need to take people with more skills. Do you think that Magnus Carlsen would forget how to mount a basic defence if he didn't touch chess for 20 years? He wouldn't be as good, sure, but he wouldn't forget how to play, he would still beat most people.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        And most interviewees, as chess players, are not Magnus Carlsen.
        Jensson 5y ago
        My rule of thumb is that people remember things one or two layers lower than their max. If you learned calculus then you wont forget basic algebra. If you took a grad course on electromagnetism then you wont forget basic calculus. The same goes for algorithms, if you learned them once and then never had a course where you built upon those to make more advanced algorithms you will forget them. But once you start to see them as basic building blocks for other things then you wont forget. So from this rule, if you just learned the rules for chess you would forget them. But if you started trying to win chess games and viewed the rules as building blocks for strategies, then you will remember the rules for chess. Then you start to compose strategies etc.
  - wly_cdgr 5y ago
    Re: different form of memory comment: ok, let me offer another analogy, do you need to spend time recalling how to implement a for loop? No one is testing your ability to do cutting edge original CS research in these interviews. It's just basic fundamentals
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Is it in a language that one has not encountered in day to day work in a long time? Because if so, that is analogous to interviewees encountering an algorithmic problem they have not dealt with in a while.
ByteJockey 5y ago
> Why don't you think it's simply an issue of many people who go through CS programs failing to master the material? That's still a problem with CS programs. They're passing people who haven't learned the material.

Apocryphon 5y ago

Is it? If it's so straightforward, then why don't all of the people who are struggling with these questions simply take the Coursera course? At the very least, these interviews require the applicant to be immediately familiar with any of the topics that might span a semester (or two) long course, so recall could be an issue.

wly_cdgr 5y ago
They probably should! Also, recall would only be an issue if they didn't truly master the material. Do you need to recall how to ride a bike after you've learned to do it?
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Perhaps not the most apt analogy, as that is a physiologically different form of memory: https://blog.cognifit.com/motor-memory/ https://blog.cognifit.com/motor-memory/ https://www.vanderbilt.edu/olli/class-materials/Neuroscience_April4th.pdf https://www.vanderbilt.edu/olli/class-materials/Neuroscience...
  - Jensson 5y ago
    You wont forget the basics of how to play chess either even if you haven't played it for 20 years, as long as you played it many times back then. I don't think there is a significant difference here, if you learned something properly then you wont forget it.
    - copenja 5y ago
      The human mind requires practice to retain skill and proficiency. Period. People who were solid engineers and later become executives, 20 years down the line many say they no longer can code. I've seen this many times. Where are you getting this concept that humans never forget skills? That's completely false.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        Come to think of it, the basics of playing chess is of insufficient complexity to be compared to an algorithm interview. More like being able to mount basic strategies and chess moves. Not sure how the average player would be able to recall those if they haven't played chess in a long time, because they were instead playing games derived from basic chess moves but with very different game mechanics.
        Jensson 5y ago
        If you demand more complexity then you need to take people with more skills. Do you think that Magnus Carlsen would forget how to mount a basic defence if he didn't touch chess for 20 years? He wouldn't be as good, sure, but he wouldn't forget how to play, he would still beat most people.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        And most interviewees, as chess players, are not Magnus Carlsen.
        Jensson 5y ago
        My rule of thumb is that people remember things one or two layers lower than their max. If you learned calculus then you wont forget basic algebra. If you took a grad course on electromagnetism then you wont forget basic calculus. The same goes for algorithms, if you learned them once and then never had a course where you built upon those to make more advanced algorithms you will forget them. But once you start to see them as basic building blocks for other things then you wont forget. So from this rule, if you just learned the rules for chess you would forget them. But if you started trying to win chess games and viewed the rules as building blocks for strategies, then you will remember the rules for chess. Then you start to compose strategies etc.
- wly_cdgr 5y ago
  Re: different form of memory comment: ok, let me offer another analogy, do you need to spend time recalling how to implement a for loop? No one is testing your ability to do cutting edge original CS research in these interviews. It's just basic fundamentals
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Is it in a language that one has not encountered in day to day work in a long time? Because if so, that is analogous to interviewees encountering an algorithmic problem they have not dealt with in a while.

ByteJockey 5y ago

> Why don't you think it's simply an issue of many people who go through CS programs failing to master the material? That's still a problem with CS programs. They're passing people who haven't learned the material.