4 ms·

I actually like the organic layout of the streets. Maybe sucks for driving, but it seems to be conducive for walking because the paths radiate out of transit hu

I actually like the organic layout of the streets. Maybe sucks for driving, but it seems to be conducive for walking because the paths radiate out of transit hubs. For a grid layout it would force people walking to take suboptimal zig-zag paths. One anecdote about the grocery stores and organic planing versus central planning: In Japan the grocery stores are often placed closer to stations and transit stops or often in the station itself, so it covers people during their commute walking back home. In San Francisco I have no idea what the logic behind the placement of grocery stores is. I bet it has something to do around the ownership of cars because they are not placed in very logical positions and all include giant parking lots despite being in the middle of the city. So this very feature resists any motion towards usage of public transit because they are never designed with transit in mind. For example my route in SF to the grocery store would be a 25 minute walk from the BART station because I have to go past my house to the middle of nowhere, and then walk 15 minutes back. To add insult to injury there is no parking for my apartment so it's like the grocery stores were designed for people who driving in from outside the city for some reason.

SllX 5y ago
Some neighborhoods suck at this but by and large most of the larger supermarkets are near some bus or streetcar route. If you’re looking only at BART, that’s not anywhere close to the case.
- chrischen 5y ago
  That’s true, there is usually a bus stop but then the bus routes are much more pervasive, though less frequent. However, I consider the BART route to be a more major and busier route, so choosing to place the grocery store away from it but on a smaller transit route is still counter productive.
  - SllX 5y ago
    I think you’re discounting that bus line too much. Most of the bigger SF buses pre-COVID were easily clocking between 15-25K daily ridership. If your target market is the neighborhood you stick the store in, that is sufficient. Or look at it this way: you and I may not be privy to the logic, both Target and Whole Foods have opened up a number of stores both within and outside the vicinity of the SF BART tunnel. If they had the option to but didn’t stick some of their stores closer to BART, there’s probably a reason for it. Speaking of which, last time I was around Civic Center I saw Whole Foods was building a second Market Street location around there, due to open next year I believe?
    - chrischen 5y ago
      I meant specifically the single BART stop is a much bigger and trafficked stop than any of the other bus stops, especially the ones servicing the grocery stores. The BART stop also serves as a MUNI transfer point, and a bustling "town center" in the area. There are indeed a bunch of smaller grocery stores in the area, but the whole landscape around that area is a 2-story limited area you wouldn't notice was a transit hub if it weren't for the proselytizers and community members gathered there on a daily basis.

SllX 5y ago

Some neighborhoods suck at this but by and large most of the larger supermarkets are near some bus or streetcar route. If you’re looking only at BART, that’s not anywhere close to the case.

chrischen 5y ago
That’s true, there is usually a bus stop but then the bus routes are much more pervasive, though less frequent. However, I consider the BART route to be a more major and busier route, so choosing to place the grocery store away from it but on a smaller transit route is still counter productive.
- SllX 5y ago
  I think you’re discounting that bus line too much. Most of the bigger SF buses pre-COVID were easily clocking between 15-25K daily ridership. If your target market is the neighborhood you stick the store in, that is sufficient. Or look at it this way: you and I may not be privy to the logic, both Target and Whole Foods have opened up a number of stores both within and outside the vicinity of the SF BART tunnel. If they had the option to but didn’t stick some of their stores closer to BART, there’s probably a reason for it. Speaking of which, last time I was around Civic Center I saw Whole Foods was building a second Market Street location around there, due to open next year I believe?
  - chrischen 5y ago
    I meant specifically the single BART stop is a much bigger and trafficked stop than any of the other bus stops, especially the ones servicing the grocery stores. The BART stop also serves as a MUNI transfer point, and a bustling "town center" in the area. There are indeed a bunch of smaller grocery stores in the area, but the whole landscape around that area is a 2-story limited area you wouldn't notice was a transit hub if it weren't for the proselytizers and community members gathered there on a daily basis.