4 ms·

> As long as your philosophy of what a desktop is matches exactly to what the core devs view gnome is, then I am sure your fine. Well, yes. They are the devs.

by esarbe 5y ago

> As long as your philosophy of what a desktop is matches exactly to what the core devs view gnome is, then I am sure your fine. Well, yes. They are the devs. It's their project and so they get to decide what goes in. That not different with any other project. > obtuse nature of the gnome team That has been often repeated, but has not been my experience. Yes, the Gnome developers, such as any good team - has a clear vision of what their product should be and a process they are following. Most of the time, there are excellent reasons for their decisions. Sometimes technical, sometimes pragmatic. In some cases it's just aesthetics. But that's not different from any other free/open source projects. There are dozens of projects that are forked and forked again because of aesthetic, technical, social or idealistic differences. > as was highlighted above, System76 ships a forked version of gnome with popos because none of their changes, their contributions, were not accepted by gnome. Well, that's .. good, I guess? I mean, that System76 have forked version of Gnome that confirms more to their vision of a desktop. That's the beauty of free/open software; no one is beholden to a single company calling the shots. > From my point of view gnome devs do not build gnome for the gnome community gnome devs build gnome for themselves, and if others use it ok, but they do not really care if they do I would argue that the Gnome developers very much are a part of the Gnome community. Yes, they build it for themselves, or for the companies paying them to build it. The primary commercial contributors to Gnome - companies like Endless, Redhat, Ubuntu, SuSE - are not single-mindedly interested in Gnome's market share. They have larger offerings, of which Gnome is only a part. They have nothing to gain from - say - Gentoo switching to Gnome (except maybe additional developers, but that's not a given). Why should

syshum 5y ago
Ok, I am not sure why you needed state the obvious. To be clear here the comment I replied to, that you then replied to was about "why do we need another DE, just contribute to gnome" I explained why, your attempt at "refuting" my position is "well they do not need to accept your contributions because it is their project" This is amazing circular logic... You are correct they are free to run their project however they want, and we are free to fork or create other DE's that meet our needs.. but again this was a comment about linux getting yet another DE, and the growing compliant that linux has too many DE's Linux has too many DE's because projects like gnome have a narrow focus that only care about their own goals and give 2 shits less if you do not agree with them. That is fine... but then people need to stop saying "dont fork, contribute"
- esarbe 5y ago
  That initial comment asked to > detail why which you dind't. You just answered with a general attack on the Gnome devs saying - I paraphrase - that they are arseholes that don't to your bidding. I then tried to get more detail and asked explicitly for your experiences with contributing to Gnome, because I didn't have bad experiences at all. So far, you didn't tell me if and what you tried to contribute or what exactly your experiences were. > This is amazing circular logic... If anything, it amazing lack at deflection. Common, spit it out. Where did the bad Gnome devs touch you? > Linux has too many DE's because projects like gnome have a narrow focus that only care about their own goals and give 2 shits less if you do not agree with them. That is fine... but then people need to stop saying "dont fork, contribute" Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. Instead it was "Why cannot you contribute" to which you just answer with a stale old general and lame excuse ("They have a narrow focus and only care about their own goals" - no really, to they? The meanies!) that can be applied to every open source project out there. I'm sick and tired of people dumping on the Gnome devs. They are doing a great job and a promising idea of a desktop that goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Almost all of the complaints come from people that have neither the interest nor the ability to truly contribute and find it easier to simply complain and bitch about. Sad! If you truly want to contribute and better Gnome - convince them! Start by fixing papercuts and show them that you are able. Get involved at the design stage and bring in your brilliant ideas. Take over responsibility in the team and make sure that your good decision making powers are acknowledged in the team. Don't just jump in from the side with your one-trick-pony issue, shouting in their faces and then complain an moan if they don't immediately obey. That's lame.
  - syshum 5y ago
    >>hat goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Which seems for both gnome, and now windows even means "Lets look at what Apple is doing and copy them" I hate Mac OS, I do not want to use a Mac, if I did I would buy a Mac. The fact that gnome wants to mirror their style and function to that of Apple is the problem I (and MANY MANY MANY others) have and they do not see to have any desire to change. >Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. It has been expressed mutiple points in this thread, and is the over arching implication in "why dont you just contribute to make gnome better" The reason is because "better" is subjective and subjectively people like the popos devs that are making their own DE's and others that have walked away from gnome feel gnome is worse, not better, and the people that control gnome have no interest in making it "better" for users like me.

by esarbe 5y ago

syshum 5y ago

Ok, I am not sure why you needed state the obvious. To be clear here the comment I replied to, that you then replied to was about "why do we need another DE, just contribute to gnome" I explained why, your attempt at "refuting" my position is "well they do not need to accept your contributions because it is their project" This is amazing circular logic... You are correct they are free to run their project however they want, and we are free to fork or create other DE's that meet our needs.. but again this was a comment about linux getting yet another DE, and the growing compliant that linux has too many DE's Linux has too many DE's because projects like gnome have a narrow focus that only care about their own goals and give 2 shits less if you do not agree with them. That is fine... but then people need to stop saying "dont fork, contribute"

esarbe 5y ago
That initial comment asked to > detail why which you dind't. You just answered with a general attack on the Gnome devs saying - I paraphrase - that they are arseholes that don't to your bidding. I then tried to get more detail and asked explicitly for your experiences with contributing to Gnome, because I didn't have bad experiences at all. So far, you didn't tell me if and what you tried to contribute or what exactly your experiences were. > This is amazing circular logic... If anything, it amazing lack at deflection. Common, spit it out. Where did the bad Gnome devs touch you? > Linux has too many DE's because projects like gnome have a narrow focus that only care about their own goals and give 2 shits less if you do not agree with them. That is fine... but then people need to stop saying "dont fork, contribute" Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. Instead it was "Why cannot you contribute" to which you just answer with a stale old general and lame excuse ("They have a narrow focus and only care about their own goals" - no really, to they? The meanies!) that can be applied to every open source project out there. I'm sick and tired of people dumping on the Gnome devs. They are doing a great job and a promising idea of a desktop that goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Almost all of the complaints come from people that have neither the interest nor the ability to truly contribute and find it easier to simply complain and bitch about. Sad! If you truly want to contribute and better Gnome - convince them! Start by fixing papercuts and show them that you are able. Get involved at the design stage and bring in your brilliant ideas. Take over responsibility in the team and make sure that your good decision making powers are acknowledged in the team. Don't just jump in from the side with your one-trick-pony issue, shouting in their faces and then complain an moan if they don't immediately obey. That's lame.
- syshum 5y ago
  >>hat goes beyond the desktop of the 80ies and 90ies. Which seems for both gnome, and now windows even means "Lets look at what Apple is doing and copy them" I hate Mac OS, I do not want to use a Mac, if I did I would buy a Mac. The fact that gnome wants to mirror their style and function to that of Apple is the problem I (and MANY MANY MANY others) have and they do not see to have any desire to change. >Nowhere in this thread was this expressed. It has been expressed mutiple points in this thread, and is the over arching implication in "why dont you just contribute to make gnome better" The reason is because "better" is subjective and subjectively people like the popos devs that are making their own DE's and others that have walked away from gnome feel gnome is worse, not better, and the people that control gnome have no interest in making it "better" for users like me.