4 ms·

In fairness her focus is much more on message and content than on correctness. I do agree that she would benefit from a copy editor but the main challenge a lot

In fairness her focus is much more on message and content than on correctness. I do agree that she would benefit from a copy editor but the main challenge a lot of business owners have is with what to say, rather than saying it with perfect grammar. So I imagine she may well be able to help people who struggle with that. Which in my experience is almost everyone in business.

tasogare 5y ago
At $600+ the prestation it has to be perfect grammar wise, especially for a service focusing on text. I was also annoyed by the wrong use of kahuna and begs the question and I'm not even a native speaker of English.
- token6053 5y ago
  That's the thing: the copy does not need to demonstrate perfect grammar. All that matters is that the copy results in sales. Although I do realize that some may disagree with that sentiment. To each his own!
scoot 5y ago
That's a fair point, as that is the primary role of a copywriter. However the author is targeting startups who are unlikely to have the budget to hire an editor to fix the copy provided by the copywriter. It should be part of the package, but on the basis of the OP's own sales copy, it isn't.
dghlsakjg 5y ago
Grammar and spelling are table stakes for copywriting. A copywriter shouldn't sell themselves on it, or mention it, because it is an assumption that it will be good. When a copy writer is offering a service with bad copy, it casts into doubt their ability to write or edit copy. I ran this sentence from the article through google docs: >There was overwhelm of not knowing how to start a website, what pages to include, and what those pages should even be doing. Google docs correctly picked up the error, and made the correct suggestion. I expect that a copy editor will NEVER turn in copy that has not been run through a basic automated check.
- token6053 5y ago
  Hey, I get it. I totally understand if writing "there was an overwhelming feeling" seems more correct to you. But my goal is to relay a message as I hear it from the target audience which explains a lot of those strategic choices I made in the blog post (trust me, me and Google spell check were good friends throughout the writing process). But I try not to use Google spell check like it's a God. More like a helpful angel on my shoulder.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    Overwhelm is a verb that is being used as incorrectly as a noun in this sentence. It can’t be the subject of the sentence since it is a verb. This isn’t about what seems more correct, or about an accepted although incorrect usage. If you have examples of it being used in this way please do point to them. Otherwise, realize that this is your target market giving you very direct feedback. Edit: I love that you are responding and open to feedback. But, again, the mistakes that people are mentioning are not trivial, nitpicks, or a matter of opinion. You are the only person that search can find who has ever used the phrase “there was overwhelm of”…
    - token6053 5y ago
      I understand your point of view, truly. But I disagree with the premise that because I have used that phrase we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. Essentially, the point of copy is not to follow each and every grammar rule. It is to make sales. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, here's an interesting post from the Columbia Journalism Review: https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/overwhelming-overwhelm-whelm-grammar-noun-verb.php https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/overwhelming-overwhelm-w.... The author acknowledges that the word "overwhelm" has been used as a noun since the 1500s. It may not be everyone's cup of tea. But it doesn't need to be. So there are two truths here. Yours and mine, which can happily coexist :)
      - dghlsakjg 5y ago
        And yet… You corrected kahunas to cojones, and cleaned up the copy around nouning overwhelm so that it read like the article you found. Your original usage was clunky, and we were trying to give you valid feedback. You are sticking to your guns in the thread while making ninja edits in the copy. Feedback hurts, but at the end of the day, we’re trying to help you. You keep saying it’s not about correctness, but about sales. What we’re telling you is that your incorrect grammar is losing you sales.
token6053 5y ago
You're right on the money. Although I'm definitely adding a copy editor to my list of things to invest in ASAP.

tasogare 5y ago

At $600+ the prestation it has to be perfect grammar wise, especially for a service focusing on text. I was also annoyed by the wrong use of kahuna and begs the question and I'm not even a native speaker of English.

token6053 5y ago
That's the thing: the copy does not need to demonstrate perfect grammar. All that matters is that the copy results in sales. Although I do realize that some may disagree with that sentiment. To each his own!

scoot 5y ago

That's a fair point, as that is the primary role of a copywriter. However the author is targeting startups who are unlikely to have the budget to hire an editor to fix the copy provided by the copywriter. It should be part of the package, but on the basis of the OP's own sales copy, it isn't.

dghlsakjg 5y ago

Grammar and spelling are table stakes for copywriting. A copywriter shouldn't sell themselves on it, or mention it, because it is an assumption that it will be good. When a copy writer is offering a service with bad copy, it casts into doubt their ability to write or edit copy. I ran this sentence from the article through google docs: >There was overwhelm of not knowing how to start a website, what pages to include, and what those pages should even be doing. Google docs correctly picked up the error, and made the correct suggestion. I expect that a copy editor will NEVER turn in copy that has not been run through a basic automated check.

token6053 5y ago
Hey, I get it. I totally understand if writing "there was an overwhelming feeling" seems more correct to you. But my goal is to relay a message as I hear it from the target audience which explains a lot of those strategic choices I made in the blog post (trust me, me and Google spell check were good friends throughout the writing process). But I try not to use Google spell check like it's a God. More like a helpful angel on my shoulder.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  Overwhelm is a verb that is being used as incorrectly as a noun in this sentence. It can’t be the subject of the sentence since it is a verb. This isn’t about what seems more correct, or about an accepted although incorrect usage. If you have examples of it being used in this way please do point to them. Otherwise, realize that this is your target market giving you very direct feedback. Edit: I love that you are responding and open to feedback. But, again, the mistakes that people are mentioning are not trivial, nitpicks, or a matter of opinion. You are the only person that search can find who has ever used the phrase “there was overwhelm of”…
  - token6053 5y ago
    I understand your point of view, truly. But I disagree with the premise that because I have used that phrase we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. Essentially, the point of copy is not to follow each and every grammar rule. It is to make sales. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, here's an interesting post from the Columbia Journalism Review: https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/overwhelming-overwhelm-whelm-grammar-noun-verb.php https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/overwhelming-overwhelm-w.... The author acknowledges that the word "overwhelm" has been used as a noun since the 1500s. It may not be everyone's cup of tea. But it doesn't need to be. So there are two truths here. Yours and mine, which can happily coexist :)
    - dghlsakjg 5y ago
      And yet… You corrected kahunas to cojones, and cleaned up the copy around nouning overwhelm so that it read like the article you found. Your original usage was clunky, and we were trying to give you valid feedback. You are sticking to your guns in the thread while making ninja edits in the copy. Feedback hurts, but at the end of the day, we’re trying to help you. You keep saying it’s not about correctness, but about sales. What we’re telling you is that your incorrect grammar is losing you sales.

token6053 5y ago

You're right on the money. Although I'm definitely adding a copy editor to my list of things to invest in ASAP.