4 ms·

I think mandate is too heavy a frame in news reports and here. The regulation requires a vaccine OR a set weekly testing structure. Seems reasonable to me thou

I think mandate is too heavy a frame in news reports and here. The regulation requires a vaccine OR a set weekly testing structure. Seems reasonable to me though perhaps a bit broadly targeted. Usually I think OSHA has specific regulations by specific industries. There is a different risk between super tightly packed meat plants and Google work from home. https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/11/what-is-the-osha-vaccine-mandate-and-testing-requirement-for-businesses.html https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/11/what-is-the-osha-vacc...

spookthesunset 5y ago
> The regulation requires a vaccine OR a set weekly testing structure. Seems reasonable to me though perhaps a bit broadly targeted. Why? Who do these measures protect? What problem is being solved and what metrics are being used to determine when we get there? So far, I have yet to hear any politician state any of this.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  I think it's very obvious that vaccines protect against covid. Like that's not even worth a comment. There are many many studies and sources showing this. An argument worth having could be whether or not that is tied enough to workplace to fall under OSHA.
  - gfodor 5y ago
    It’s also very obvious now that it’s debatable if a 20 something kid who hasn’t taken the vaccine but is healthy and has good vitamin D levels presents more risk to others and is at more risk from COVID as a fully vaccinated 60 year old obese person.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    If it is obvious why are so many people concerned with others vaccination status? If you are vaccinated you have no reason to care about anybody else. People continuing to wear masks post vaccine clearly don’t think the vaccine works.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > If you are vaccinated you have no reason to care about anybody else. Nice. > People continuing to wear masks post vaccine clearly don’t think the vaccine works. Maybe they think the vaccines work, but that there are still far too many unvaccinated and unmasked fuckwits walking around spreading the virus and they themselves are trying to avoid participating in that.
gfodor 5y ago
Given the vaccine is not very good at this point at halting transmission, if we wanted a mandate focused on reducing transmission, it would be entirely about testing requirements. As a bonus, that would remove the major issue with coercing people into choosing between an onerous, expensive, and invasive testing regime and having to take a drug they do not want to hold a job.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  Vaccinated people get infected at much lower rates than unvaccinated people. The vaccines (especially the mRNA vaccines) are very good at reducing transmission. They of course can't halt transmission in the unvaccinated, and are not 100% protection for the vaccinated.
  - gfodor 5y ago
    The vaccines reduce transmission but saying they are “very good” at this conflicts with basic logic, since that descriptor can’t be applied to both the efficacy in March (when it was very good) and the efficacy today, which we know is far less.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      Infections among the vaccinated are like 6x less frequent than the unvaccinated. It's perfectly compatible with base logic to say that there's a bar for very good that they were above then and are still above now, so that's not really a great argument. If you want to construct an argument about what 'very good' should mean, that's different, but there's no logical contradiction involved. It's like if you eat the best cake of your life and call it very good, that doesn't mean you are lying if you later also call the second best cake of your life very good.
      - gfodor 5y ago
        Bill Gates on the vaccines: “ “You know, we didn’t have vaccines that block transmission. We got vaccines that help you with your health, but they only slightly reduced transmission,” Now go read my original post and tell me who sounds more in line with reality: the person noticing the relatively low efficacy of the vaccines to stop transmission and saying this deficiency should be incorporated in policy, or those who say it is very good (often because they do not want to lead people to avoid the vaccine, ironically, which happens due to loss of trust from such spin) and go on to write and impose policies that assume it is highly effective at stopping all aspects of the virus.

spookthesunset 5y ago

> The regulation requires a vaccine OR a set weekly testing structure. Seems reasonable to me though perhaps a bit broadly targeted. Why? Who do these measures protect? What problem is being solved and what metrics are being used to determine when we get there? So far, I have yet to hear any politician state any of this.

dillondoyle 5y ago
I think it's very obvious that vaccines protect against covid. Like that's not even worth a comment. There are many many studies and sources showing this. An argument worth having could be whether or not that is tied enough to workplace to fall under OSHA.
- gfodor 5y ago
  It’s also very obvious now that it’s debatable if a 20 something kid who hasn’t taken the vaccine but is healthy and has good vitamin D levels presents more risk to others and is at more risk from COVID as a fully vaccinated 60 year old obese person.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  If it is obvious why are so many people concerned with others vaccination status? If you are vaccinated you have no reason to care about anybody else. People continuing to wear masks post vaccine clearly don’t think the vaccine works.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > If you are vaccinated you have no reason to care about anybody else. Nice. > People continuing to wear masks post vaccine clearly don’t think the vaccine works. Maybe they think the vaccines work, but that there are still far too many unvaccinated and unmasked fuckwits walking around spreading the virus and they themselves are trying to avoid participating in that.

gfodor 5y ago

Given the vaccine is not very good at this point at halting transmission, if we wanted a mandate focused on reducing transmission, it would be entirely about testing requirements. As a bonus, that would remove the major issue with coercing people into choosing between an onerous, expensive, and invasive testing regime and having to take a drug they do not want to hold a job.

maxerickson 5y ago
Vaccinated people get infected at much lower rates than unvaccinated people. The vaccines (especially the mRNA vaccines) are very good at reducing transmission. They of course can't halt transmission in the unvaccinated, and are not 100% protection for the vaccinated.
- gfodor 5y ago
  The vaccines reduce transmission but saying they are “very good” at this conflicts with basic logic, since that descriptor can’t be applied to both the efficacy in March (when it was very good) and the efficacy today, which we know is far less.
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    Infections among the vaccinated are like 6x less frequent than the unvaccinated. It's perfectly compatible with base logic to say that there's a bar for very good that they were above then and are still above now, so that's not really a great argument. If you want to construct an argument about what 'very good' should mean, that's different, but there's no logical contradiction involved. It's like if you eat the best cake of your life and call it very good, that doesn't mean you are lying if you later also call the second best cake of your life very good.
    - gfodor 5y ago
      Bill Gates on the vaccines: “ “You know, we didn’t have vaccines that block transmission. We got vaccines that help you with your health, but they only slightly reduced transmission,” Now go read my original post and tell me who sounds more in line with reality: the person noticing the relatively low efficacy of the vaccines to stop transmission and saying this deficiency should be incorporated in policy, or those who say it is very good (often because they do not want to lead people to avoid the vaccine, ironically, which happens due to loss of trust from such spin) and go on to write and impose policies that assume it is highly effective at stopping all aspects of the virus.