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This anti consumer approach by Apple is why I refuse to buy anything from them. My last Apple purchase was the iPad Gen 1 as I thought it was a truly remarkabl

by icu 5y ago

This anti consumer approach by Apple is why I refuse to buy anything from them. My last Apple purchase was the iPad Gen 1 as I thought it was a truly remarkable device when it came out but the planned obsolescence was obvious after a few short years. Recently I had my XPS15 power cord plug break and while I waited for the spare part (that I could repair myself) I had the pleasure of borrowing my partner's MacBook which was an amazing experience compared to Windows. However, that experience is nothing to the cost and pain if something with the hardware goes wrong. Even when I forgot my Apple ID (as it had been so long) it took over a week before Apple deemed it okay for me to recover my password. I get the seduction of using a snappy beautiful machine and UX, but I just don't think it's worth it tying myself to Apple and being walled in the whole ecosystem upgrade treadmill.

tim333 5y ago
>the whole ecosystem upgrade treadmill I haven't noticed that as a user of Apple phones and laptops. The 4 year old iphone SE is working fine with the latest OS. I stopped using the 2013 macbook air because it was kind of falling apart a bit, not due to any weirdness from Apple. I'm not even sure what the "ecosystem upgrade treadmill" is. I did have the issue of the screen of the SE being harder to replace than the 5 because it has a fingerprint scanner that can access your credit cards. I can understand Apple having security standards for that. The local repair shop still does it but it's £50 with an official part rather than £20 with some Chinese knock off.
Bud 5y ago
Um, what upgrade treadmill? This argument is so tiresome. Apple's products consistently last longer and hold their value much longer than the competition. That is the exact opposite of an "upgrade treadmill". I've used various Apple devices for as long as 8 years or so, then sold them to others who kept using them. In addition, this entire thread just blew up today: https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/09/upcoming-apple-software-update-will-stop-iphone-13-screen-swap-block https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/09/upcoming-apple-so...
lotsofpulp 5y ago
> Even when I forgot my Apple ID (as it had been so long) it took over a week before Apple deemed it okay for me to recover my password. I do not see what is wrong this added security. For something that unlocks basically everything about me, it seems reasonable to not let it be unlocked at a moment’s notice.
- icu 5y ago
  From my point of view I believe I can be trusted to reset my Apple ID quickly. I'm very security conscious which is why unlocking my Apple ID does not unlock 'everything about me'. As I mentioned in a previous reply, I get it now... if you did trust Apple with everything about yourself, you would see the delay as reasonable security. However, I just don't trust Apple that much because they are at the end of the day a huge corporation that couldn't give a monkey's if my data was compromised. I'm a little guy and Apple isn't going to apologise or make it right if something catastrophic happened. The Fappening is case and point. These celebrities trusted Apple and completely outsourced their security only to find their privacy violated in shocking horror. So, I understand where you're coming from, but it's a step too far for me.
  - cassonmars 5y ago
    That infamous case was the result of poor password use followed by an unguarded login page with no retry limit. This isn’t meant to victim blame, but it’s to also point out Apple too was a victim on this, they have a far stronger commitment to privacy compared to other companies.
    - icu 5y ago
      Sure, but these celebrities completely outsourced their security to Apple because they trusted Apple. "Apple knows best"... but clearly not because Apple should have had rate limiting for password login attempts to stop password brute-forcing attacks. As for the far stronger commitment to privacy, I'm not so sure. Apple seems reluctant at times to patch zero-days which has been covered on the front page of HN.
dpkonofa 5y ago
>This anti consumer approach by Apple is why I refuse to buy anything from them. What is anti-consumer about this? I am a consumer and active user of these products and I want this posture when it comes to the security of my devices. I don't want just anyone to be able to tamper with the hardware of my phone nor do I want anyone to be able to access my Apple ID or other info without some kind of time delay for me to take action to secure it.
- icu 5y ago
  I couldn't really understand comments like yours until I read a comment by saagarjha above which summed it up nicely by saying, "The conflict occurs for the parts where people do feel like they can make better decisions than Apple, but they can't because Apple won't let them." I understand now the difference is that you're willing to trust that Apple knows best for you, whereas I trust myself to know what's best for me. I accept that you see this as pro-consumer from your point of view, but from my point of view surely you can see it's not? We just want different things. What helped me get it was your point about security and that you'll have a different attack surface and will have made different security trade offs to me. Thanks for sharing your point of view, I appreciate it.
  - bengale 5y ago
    Yeah the problem is the “anti-consumer” hyperbole. For some people it’s just not for them, doesn’t line up with what they want from a device. I’m not sure why that needs to be anything more than preference.
    - icu 5y ago
      I agree it's a preference... but I wouldn't go so far as to describe anti-consumer as hyperbole. Hyperbole is making something sound more impressive than it is, and anti-consumer is not being favorable to consumers. Some people, like myself, will find Apple approaches not being favorable... the scales of control being tipped too far to Apple than to them. That's not making it sound more impressive than it is. Apple is a behemoth of a corporation and I am orders of magnitude less powerful. Anyhow, you do you, and I'll do me, it's a free country and if Apple products are perfect for you, c'est la vie!
stelcodes 5y ago
If you like MacOS it might be worth checking out the ElementaryOS linux distribution. It kinda looks and feels like MacOS. Very simple.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
But their products are so blingy and fast! /s It's a magician trick. Distract you with one hand while performing the trick with the other. Watch the dazzling performance while they further lock down your device.
maxgashkov 5y ago
> However, that experience is nothing to the cost and pain if something with the hardware goes wrong. I have never been able to understand that. I can appreciate conviction of not using any manufacturer's products as some kind of a political statement, but this? How often does something with your hardware goes wrong? I assume it's single-ish number of events per year, but you choose to suffer every day for the experience you deem subpar in a windows device?
- icu 5y ago
  Fair point. It's not just this, it's the lack of being able to upgrade. I guess I'm just old and remember when I did my first upgrade from a 14.4k modem to a 33.6k modem and how much faster it was (lol). This is why my next laptop won't be another XPS, but will be a Framework laptop. I would have bought the Framework laptop now if it wasn't for the fact that they don't ship to the UK (yet) and there's no 15" version.
  - maxgashkov 5y ago
    Yeah, in my youth all my PCs were built by hand from the components (due to cost reasons more than anything else). But now I feel that this is not such an easy task anymore as components have to be carefully selected to not introduce a bottleneck somewhere by accident and I feel I just don't have the time for this.

by icu 5y ago

tim333 5y ago

>the whole ecosystem upgrade treadmill I haven't noticed that as a user of Apple phones and laptops. The 4 year old iphone SE is working fine with the latest OS. I stopped using the 2013 macbook air because it was kind of falling apart a bit, not due to any weirdness from Apple. I'm not even sure what the "ecosystem upgrade treadmill" is. I did have the issue of the screen of the SE being harder to replace than the 5 because it has a fingerprint scanner that can access your credit cards. I can understand Apple having security standards for that. The local repair shop still does it but it's £50 with an official part rather than £20 with some Chinese knock off.

Bud 5y ago

Um, what upgrade treadmill? This argument is so tiresome. Apple's products consistently last longer and hold their value much longer than the competition. That is the exact opposite of an "upgrade treadmill". I've used various Apple devices for as long as 8 years or so, then sold them to others who kept using them. In addition, this entire thread just blew up today: https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/09/upcoming-apple-software-update-will-stop-iphone-13-screen-swap-block https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/09/upcoming-apple-so...

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> Even when I forgot my Apple ID (as it had been so long) it took over a week before Apple deemed it okay for me to recover my password. I do not see what is wrong this added security. For something that unlocks basically everything about me, it seems reasonable to not let it be unlocked at a moment’s notice.

icu 5y ago
From my point of view I believe I can be trusted to reset my Apple ID quickly. I'm very security conscious which is why unlocking my Apple ID does not unlock 'everything about me'. As I mentioned in a previous reply, I get it now... if you did trust Apple with everything about yourself, you would see the delay as reasonable security. However, I just don't trust Apple that much because they are at the end of the day a huge corporation that couldn't give a monkey's if my data was compromised. I'm a little guy and Apple isn't going to apologise or make it right if something catastrophic happened. The Fappening is case and point. These celebrities trusted Apple and completely outsourced their security only to find their privacy violated in shocking horror. So, I understand where you're coming from, but it's a step too far for me.
- cassonmars 5y ago
  That infamous case was the result of poor password use followed by an unguarded login page with no retry limit. This isn’t meant to victim blame, but it’s to also point out Apple too was a victim on this, they have a far stronger commitment to privacy compared to other companies.
  - icu 5y ago
    Sure, but these celebrities completely outsourced their security to Apple because they trusted Apple. "Apple knows best"... but clearly not because Apple should have had rate limiting for password login attempts to stop password brute-forcing attacks. As for the far stronger commitment to privacy, I'm not so sure. Apple seems reluctant at times to patch zero-days which has been covered on the front page of HN.

dpkonofa 5y ago

>This anti consumer approach by Apple is why I refuse to buy anything from them. What is anti-consumer about this? I am a consumer and active user of these products and I want this posture when it comes to the security of my devices. I don't want just anyone to be able to tamper with the hardware of my phone nor do I want anyone to be able to access my Apple ID or other info without some kind of time delay for me to take action to secure it.

icu 5y ago
I couldn't really understand comments like yours until I read a comment by saagarjha above which summed it up nicely by saying, "The conflict occurs for the parts where people do feel like they can make better decisions than Apple, but they can't because Apple won't let them." I understand now the difference is that you're willing to trust that Apple knows best for you, whereas I trust myself to know what's best for me. I accept that you see this as pro-consumer from your point of view, but from my point of view surely you can see it's not? We just want different things. What helped me get it was your point about security and that you'll have a different attack surface and will have made different security trade offs to me. Thanks for sharing your point of view, I appreciate it.
- bengale 5y ago
  Yeah the problem is the “anti-consumer” hyperbole. For some people it’s just not for them, doesn’t line up with what they want from a device. I’m not sure why that needs to be anything more than preference.
  - icu 5y ago
    I agree it's a preference... but I wouldn't go so far as to describe anti-consumer as hyperbole. Hyperbole is making something sound more impressive than it is, and anti-consumer is not being favorable to consumers. Some people, like myself, will find Apple approaches not being favorable... the scales of control being tipped too far to Apple than to them. That's not making it sound more impressive than it is. Apple is a behemoth of a corporation and I am orders of magnitude less powerful. Anyhow, you do you, and I'll do me, it's a free country and if Apple products are perfect for you, c'est la vie!

stelcodes 5y ago

If you like MacOS it might be worth checking out the ElementaryOS linux distribution. It kinda looks and feels like MacOS. Very simple.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

But their products are so blingy and fast! /s It's a magician trick. Distract you with one hand while performing the trick with the other. Watch the dazzling performance while they further lock down your device.

maxgashkov 5y ago

> However, that experience is nothing to the cost and pain if something with the hardware goes wrong. I have never been able to understand that. I can appreciate conviction of not using any manufacturer's products as some kind of a political statement, but this? How often does something with your hardware goes wrong? I assume it's single-ish number of events per year, but you choose to suffer every day for the experience you deem subpar in a windows device?

icu 5y ago
Fair point. It's not just this, it's the lack of being able to upgrade. I guess I'm just old and remember when I did my first upgrade from a 14.4k modem to a 33.6k modem and how much faster it was (lol). This is why my next laptop won't be another XPS, but will be a Framework laptop. I would have bought the Framework laptop now if it wasn't for the fact that they don't ship to the UK (yet) and there's no 15" version.
- maxgashkov 5y ago
  Yeah, in my youth all my PCs were built by hand from the components (due to cost reasons more than anything else). But now I feel that this is not such an easy task anymore as components have to be carefully selected to not introduce a bottleneck somewhere by accident and I feel I just don't have the time for this.