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Schools should never be autonomous, but I dont believe they should be considered to work for parents either Schools should work to produce well rounded educat

by syshum 5y ago

Schools should never be autonomous, but I dont believe they should be considered to work for parents either Schools should work to produce well rounded educated productive citizens for the community. That includes the parents, but also includes childless citizens, businesses, etc. The politics of both parents, AND teachers have muddled the true mission of what a school should be. I would like to see schools return to actual education, and less politics.

arcanus 5y ago
> Schools should work to produce well rounded educated productive citizens for the community. Agreed, but who defines this? Parents deserve input, as key stakeholders and as taxpayers.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Stakeholder != Owner Yes, parents have a role. Yes, parents have a stake. They are not exclusive in this.
  - ed25519FUUU 5y ago
    Is there a better definition of who “owns” a school other than the public tax payers?
    - aspenmayer 5y ago
      The public is everyone, citizen or not, taxpayer or not.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Parents are a subset of taxpayers. Taxpayers are a subset of stakeholders. (Few childres are taxpayers, for starters, at least not in any significant capacity. They are a primary, but still not the sole nor determinative, stakeholder.)
nostromo 5y ago
> Schools should work to produce well rounded educated productive citizens for the community. No. Children are not a commodity, to be molded by the needs of the state by the educational industrial complex. Children are people. Their own interests should be paramount. Not those of the community, the state, or even the parents. (The parents are generally more trusted because they have their children’s best interest at heart more often than the bureaucracy does.)
- sroussey 5y ago
  I know enough people thrown out of their home for being gay that I hesitate on the idea that the parents are the most trusted (which is why I like the way you phrase it — more trusted). There are a lot of cooperating and competing interests at play, which is how it should be.
- syshum 5y ago
  Their interests are best served by becoming educated productive members of society. This feel good, utopia, idea that children have no need to be concerned with learning a skill set, or learning how to be productive members of society (which yes means often working for companies) is part of the moronic political drivel that "education reformers" and teachers unions are pushing that are causing the American schooling system to fall behind the rest of the world. Lets start teaching hard science, math, etc. Lets start grading with red ink again, and Lets stop with the participation trophies and the like
- afavour 5y ago
  > Their own interests should be paramount There’s a limit, though. If we followed this to it’s logical conclusion then vocational training in schools would be limited to firefighting and pilot training. At a certain point kids can’t lead you in the right direction because they don’t know where they’re going yet. Guidance is in their interest even if it goes against their desire at that point in time. > Not those of the community, the state But most kids have their education free at the point of delivery, paid for by the community and state. So it’s inevitable they have a say in things. If you don’t want that then homeschooling or private schooling is a viable option.

by syshum 5y ago

arcanus 5y ago

> Schools should work to produce well rounded educated productive citizens for the community. Agreed, but who defines this? Parents deserve input, as key stakeholders and as taxpayers.

dredmorbius 5y ago
Stakeholder != Owner Yes, parents have a role. Yes, parents have a stake. They are not exclusive in this.
- ed25519FUUU 5y ago
  Is there a better definition of who “owns” a school other than the public tax payers?
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    The public is everyone, citizen or not, taxpayer or not.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Parents are a subset of taxpayers. Taxpayers are a subset of stakeholders. (Few childres are taxpayers, for starters, at least not in any significant capacity. They are a primary, but still not the sole nor determinative, stakeholder.)

nostromo 5y ago

> Schools should work to produce well rounded educated productive citizens for the community. No. Children are not a commodity, to be molded by the needs of the state by the educational industrial complex. Children are people. Their own interests should be paramount. Not those of the community, the state, or even the parents. (The parents are generally more trusted because they have their children’s best interest at heart more often than the bureaucracy does.)

sroussey 5y ago
I know enough people thrown out of their home for being gay that I hesitate on the idea that the parents are the most trusted (which is why I like the way you phrase it — more trusted). There are a lot of cooperating and competing interests at play, which is how it should be.
syshum 5y ago
Their interests are best served by becoming educated productive members of society. This feel good, utopia, idea that children have no need to be concerned with learning a skill set, or learning how to be productive members of society (which yes means often working for companies) is part of the moronic political drivel that "education reformers" and teachers unions are pushing that are causing the American schooling system to fall behind the rest of the world. Lets start teaching hard science, math, etc. Lets start grading with red ink again, and Lets stop with the participation trophies and the like
afavour 5y ago
> Their own interests should be paramount There’s a limit, though. If we followed this to it’s logical conclusion then vocational training in schools would be limited to firefighting and pilot training. At a certain point kids can’t lead you in the right direction because they don’t know where they’re going yet. Guidance is in their interest even if it goes against their desire at that point in time. > Not those of the community, the state But most kids have their education free at the point of delivery, paid for by the community and state. So it’s inevitable they have a say in things. If you don’t want that then homeschooling or private schooling is a viable option.