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I know someone who lived out of his car at UC Berkeley because he couldn't afford the rent. He would have loved the option for a room with no windows. I don't

I know someone who lived out of his car at UC Berkeley because he couldn't afford the rent. He would have loved the option for a room with no windows. I don't care for Munger. With that said, there's a huge disconnect here with your argument unless you can show a reasonable solution. There are poor people now who need housing. We can just build something subpar and help lift people out of homelessness.

sudosysgen 5y ago
These rooms cost 330 000$ US dollars to build, excluding the land. For that price you can build a three bedroom condo with amenities. This is a false dilemma. Little money is being saved here.
- nouveaux 5y ago
  I posted this in another comment: "Given the high construction cost everywhere, this is not surprising. I had a friend with a backyard slopping down a hill. He got some quotes to put in a deck and redo his yard. No one quoted anything less than 200k." Both of these situations are in California. Construction costs are extremely high right now.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Look. This isn't how it works. What happened is that no contractor thought it was worthwhile to take on a small project when they were busy with bigger fish. So they quoted him a ridiculous price. It's not because it would actually cost them 200 000$ in labour and material to build a deck and redo a yard. Besides, for a billion dollar you're not dealing with local contractors, at that price you can even contract international companies, let alone bring in labour from the rest of the country.
    - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
      What should a dorm building cost per room? Can you show a comparable project in California to support that estimate?
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        The average cost of a condo unit in the state of California is around 400 000$ :https://homeguides.sfgate.com/california-condo-vs-house-92553.html https://homeguides.sfgate.com/california-condo-vs-house-9255... https://la.curbed.com/2019/1/23/18194592/los-angeles-condos-for-sale-market https://la.curbed.com/2019/1/23/18194592/los-angeles-condos-... Including the cost of land, for a full condo. It would correspond to a construction price of a condo of ~300 000$. A dormitory room is going to cost less than a condo.
        TigeriusKirk 5y ago
        Units built for the homeless in Los Angeles are costing $500,000 and up. "When Los Angeles voters approved Prop. HHH in 2016, city officials predicted units would cost $350,000 to $414,000. In reality, prices have jumped to as much as $701,000 per unit, with 60 percent of the living spaces expected to exceed half a million dollars each." You'll notice even the low end that was promoted to voters is higher than $330,000. https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/21/prop-hhh-projects-in-la-cost-up-to-700000-a-unit-to-house-homeless-heres-why/ https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/21/prop-hhh-projects-in-la...
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        That includes the cost of the land. The UCSB proposal doesn't include it. This construction has to deal with NIMBYs and related delays, again UCSB doesn't have to bother with that. And most of all these aren't single occupancy units. They are units for 2-3 people. So yes, construction costs would be around the 350k mark when you take into account the land, for multi bedroom units, versus a single bedroom.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    what kind of slope? what does "redo his yard" mean? How much earth has to be moved? The deck is likely a small addendum to the cost of the earthwork, so its silly to talk about the deck as if its the same project.
Kaibeezy 5y ago
Humans have been building buildings for a pretty long time. So I would propose that my reasonable solution is every other building that’s ever been built.
- nouveaux 5y ago
  The problem is that labor and material cost continues to go up. As an architect yourself, I suspect you're not working for minimum wage. Given the thoughtful comment you posted originally, you seem like someone who puts in good work. People who put in good work deserve raises. I dont know how to solve for rising costs. I do know that if I cannot afford something nice, I have to settle for something subpar. I'm not sure how else to deal with the issue.
  - Kaibeezy 5y ago
    There is an infinity of solutions for any building program. Eliminating windows solves a couple of problems, but creates many others. Throughout human history, windowless cells have been reserved for very few situations, such as extreme punishment, or a cheap cabin on a Disney cruise (arguably overlapping cases).
    - aikinai 5y ago
      I really don’t understand how everyone’s freaking out about the window and alluding to prison and punishment but cramming two or three strangers into one tiny, old room is perfectly fine as the status quo.
      - Kaibeezy 5y ago
        Imagine... you can solve for both!
  - krisoft 5y ago
    Architects needs to be paid, something something, therefore we build bedrooms without windows. Sounds a bit like the underpants gnome reasoning to me. I would understand if someone crunched the numbers and after a long and detailed reasoning they would have come up with this solution as the only one which can potentially work. But as far as I understand that is not what happened here. The donor has aspirations to be an architecture too and stipulated that this is the only way his money can be spent. No deviations from the plan are acceptable.
PeterisP 5y ago
The expected prices - 330k per room - is not an effective way to provide for poor people who need housing. If that is what you want to do, then you need to build cheap housing, not a monstrosity that manages to be both barely livable and also very expensive.
- ZoomerCretin 5y ago
  >If that is what you want to do, then you need to build cheap housing The powerful land-speculation lobby (Monoplex owners) block every attempt at this. Munger Hall is the result. If you don't like that this is being built, your quarrel is with the suburban climate arsonists who hold up every development for extensive review until it dies.
- nouveaux 5y ago
  I posted another comment comparing this to UC Berkeley's new dorm. Munger Hall is cheaper by $360 per sq ft. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29132614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29132614

sudosysgen 5y ago

These rooms cost 330 000$ US dollars to build, excluding the land. For that price you can build a three bedroom condo with amenities. This is a false dilemma. Little money is being saved here.

nouveaux 5y ago
I posted this in another comment: "Given the high construction cost everywhere, this is not surprising. I had a friend with a backyard slopping down a hill. He got some quotes to put in a deck and redo his yard. No one quoted anything less than 200k." Both of these situations are in California. Construction costs are extremely high right now.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Look. This isn't how it works. What happened is that no contractor thought it was worthwhile to take on a small project when they were busy with bigger fish. So they quoted him a ridiculous price. It's not because it would actually cost them 200 000$ in labour and material to build a deck and redo a yard. Besides, for a billion dollar you're not dealing with local contractors, at that price you can even contract international companies, let alone bring in labour from the rest of the country.
  - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
    What should a dorm building cost per room? Can you show a comparable project in California to support that estimate?
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      The average cost of a condo unit in the state of California is around 400 000$ :https://homeguides.sfgate.com/california-condo-vs-house-92553.html https://homeguides.sfgate.com/california-condo-vs-house-9255... https://la.curbed.com/2019/1/23/18194592/los-angeles-condos-for-sale-market https://la.curbed.com/2019/1/23/18194592/los-angeles-condos-... Including the cost of land, for a full condo. It would correspond to a construction price of a condo of ~300 000$. A dormitory room is going to cost less than a condo.
      - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
        Units built for the homeless in Los Angeles are costing $500,000 and up. "When Los Angeles voters approved Prop. HHH in 2016, city officials predicted units would cost $350,000 to $414,000. In reality, prices have jumped to as much as $701,000 per unit, with 60 percent of the living spaces expected to exceed half a million dollars each." You'll notice even the low end that was promoted to voters is higher than $330,000. https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/21/prop-hhh-projects-in-la-cost-up-to-700000-a-unit-to-house-homeless-heres-why/ https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/21/prop-hhh-projects-in-la...
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        That includes the cost of the land. The UCSB proposal doesn't include it. This construction has to deal with NIMBYs and related delays, again UCSB doesn't have to bother with that. And most of all these aren't single occupancy units. They are units for 2-3 people. So yes, construction costs would be around the 350k mark when you take into account the land, for multi bedroom units, versus a single bedroom.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  what kind of slope? what does "redo his yard" mean? How much earth has to be moved? The deck is likely a small addendum to the cost of the earthwork, so its silly to talk about the deck as if its the same project.

Kaibeezy 5y ago

Humans have been building buildings for a pretty long time. So I would propose that my reasonable solution is every other building that’s ever been built.

nouveaux 5y ago
The problem is that labor and material cost continues to go up. As an architect yourself, I suspect you're not working for minimum wage. Given the thoughtful comment you posted originally, you seem like someone who puts in good work. People who put in good work deserve raises. I dont know how to solve for rising costs. I do know that if I cannot afford something nice, I have to settle for something subpar. I'm not sure how else to deal with the issue.
- Kaibeezy 5y ago
  There is an infinity of solutions for any building program. Eliminating windows solves a couple of problems, but creates many others. Throughout human history, windowless cells have been reserved for very few situations, such as extreme punishment, or a cheap cabin on a Disney cruise (arguably overlapping cases).
  - aikinai 5y ago
    I really don’t understand how everyone’s freaking out about the window and alluding to prison and punishment but cramming two or three strangers into one tiny, old room is perfectly fine as the status quo.
    - Kaibeezy 5y ago
      Imagine... you can solve for both!
- krisoft 5y ago
  Architects needs to be paid, something something, therefore we build bedrooms without windows. Sounds a bit like the underpants gnome reasoning to me. I would understand if someone crunched the numbers and after a long and detailed reasoning they would have come up with this solution as the only one which can potentially work. But as far as I understand that is not what happened here. The donor has aspirations to be an architecture too and stipulated that this is the only way his money can be spent. No deviations from the plan are acceptable.

PeterisP 5y ago

The expected prices - 330k per room - is not an effective way to provide for poor people who need housing. If that is what you want to do, then you need to build cheap housing, not a monstrosity that manages to be both barely livable and also very expensive.

ZoomerCretin 5y ago
>If that is what you want to do, then you need to build cheap housing The powerful land-speculation lobby (Monoplex owners) block every attempt at this. Munger Hall is the result. If you don't like that this is being built, your quarrel is with the suburban climate arsonists who hold up every development for extensive review until it dies.
nouveaux 5y ago
I posted another comment comparing this to UC Berkeley's new dorm. Munger Hall is cheaper by $360 per sq ft. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29132614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29132614