4 ms·

I've heard this quite a few times now and I'm not sure where the idea comes from that slavery in the Roman Republic and Empire were somehow humane but that wasn

by cletus 5y ago

I've heard this quite a few times now and I'm not sure where the idea comes from that slavery in the Roman Republic and Empire were somehow humane but that wasn't the case at all. Roman slaves were property and could be treated as such, including sexual exploitation (eg made to be prostitutes) and being summarily executed. And yes, slaves could be freed but that was also true in the American slave era. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's accessible, particularly by the slave themselves. Also, freedmen in Rome had less rights than citizens. The history of Rome is a fascinating one but it's hard to look at through the eyes of modern morality. I think this generally applies to the Ancient World: if somehow we could be transported back to that time I'm sure we'd find it quite alien. My favourite example of this is the origin of the word "decimate" [1]. If, say, a military unit rebelled against Rome, groups of 10 would have to decide which one of the 10 would die and to kill them. Slavery has always been brutal. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment)

GhettoComputers 5y ago
You claim most slaves in Roman times were not freed, do you know the history or are you just assuming with no evidence that's the case?
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > You claim most slaves in Roman times were not freed, do you know the history or are you just assuming with no evidence that's the case? Honestly, I think you're the one who needs to be providing the evidence, especially if you're claiming anything close to the opposite of that (i.e. that most slaves in Roman times were freed).
Gibbon1 5y ago
> And yes, slaves could be freed but that was also true in the American slave era. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's accessible, particularly by the slave themselves. Also, freedmen in Rome had less rights than citizens. In the US slaves were used as collateral for loans. In a way slaves weren't owned by plantation owners, they were owned by the banks. That if anything explains some of the pernicious aspects of US slavery. Also likely the US banking system. And the mistreatment of blacks after the civil war.
acdha 5y ago
I think there’s a strong linkage in America’s history of both slavery and explicitly modeling our image as continuing some kind of tradition from Rome & Ancient Greece. Slavery can’t be so bad if the governments we view as inspiration practiced it, just as many white Americans will downplay the horrors of the American system rather than fully acknowledge what their ancestors profited from.
watwut 5y ago
In particular, Sparta was Roman and they were very cruel.
- max-ibel 5y ago
  What a strange comment. Care to elaborate on "Sparta was Roman" ?
wisty 5y ago
Decimation was rarely used IIRC. But as far as I can tell, the Romans were similar in a lot of ways to the Spartans. Probably everyone was in the region, the Spartans were just a bit more extreme, and had the best propaganda. But look at what the Romans had - pater familias (the father of a household could legally murder a weak infant, or technically anyone under them including any adult male sons), legends like Troy and Horatius Cocles, plantation slavery to keep the city fed, and a violent and hierarchical society run almost entirely by veteran officers from noble families - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  Probably most societies through history has had the family as its "smallest unit". Just like in modern USA, it's nobody's business if I cut off one of my fingers, it would not be of concern for such a society if a family kills one of their members. If you kill or steal from another family, legal systems usually step in. I always keep i mind that through almost all history, compared to our modern life, people were incredibly poor, living near famine, disease, and death. In that light what seems barbaric is often just practical.

by cletus 5y ago

GhettoComputers 5y ago

You claim most slaves in Roman times were not freed, do you know the history or are you just assuming with no evidence that's the case?

tablespoon 5y ago
> You claim most slaves in Roman times were not freed, do you know the history or are you just assuming with no evidence that's the case? Honestly, I think you're the one who needs to be providing the evidence, especially if you're claiming anything close to the opposite of that (i.e. that most slaves in Roman times were freed).

Gibbon1 5y ago

> And yes, slaves could be freed but that was also true in the American slave era. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's accessible, particularly by the slave themselves. Also, freedmen in Rome had less rights than citizens. In the US slaves were used as collateral for loans. In a way slaves weren't owned by plantation owners, they were owned by the banks. That if anything explains some of the pernicious aspects of US slavery. Also likely the US banking system. And the mistreatment of blacks after the civil war.

acdha 5y ago

I think there’s a strong linkage in America’s history of both slavery and explicitly modeling our image as continuing some kind of tradition from Rome & Ancient Greece. Slavery can’t be so bad if the governments we view as inspiration practiced it, just as many white Americans will downplay the horrors of the American system rather than fully acknowledge what their ancestors profited from.

watwut 5y ago

In particular, Sparta was Roman and they were very cruel.

max-ibel 5y ago
What a strange comment. Care to elaborate on "Sparta was Roman" ?

wisty 5y ago

Decimation was rarely used IIRC. But as far as I can tell, the Romans were similar in a lot of ways to the Spartans. Probably everyone was in the region, the Spartans were just a bit more extreme, and had the best propaganda. But look at what the Romans had - pater familias (the father of a household could legally murder a weak infant, or technically anyone under them including any adult male sons), legends like Troy and Horatius Cocles, plantation slavery to keep the city fed, and a violent and hierarchical society run almost entirely by veteran officers from noble families - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum

BurningFrog 5y ago
Probably most societies through history has had the family as its "smallest unit". Just like in modern USA, it's nobody's business if I cut off one of my fingers, it would not be of concern for such a society if a family kills one of their members. If you kill or steal from another family, legal systems usually step in. I always keep i mind that through almost all history, compared to our modern life, people were incredibly poor, living near famine, disease, and death. In that light what seems barbaric is often just practical.