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At this point people are too far invested in the vaccine both mentally and financially. First, many people simply cannot admit when they were wrong. If you were

At this point people are too far invested in the vaccine both mentally and financially. First, many people simply cannot admit when they were wrong. If you were quick to get vaccinated, and then later found out that people who are vaccinated are still contracting, spreading and dying from the virus after being vaccinated; it takes a lot to say, hey... maybe the vaccine helped me, but this isn't the solution that is going to get everyone back to normal like I was told. Many people were very much against the vaccine when Trump was President, saying it was rushed, that they wouldn't get the Trump vaccine; but once Biden was promoting it, then suddenly it is fine again. People want this type of flip flopping to go unnoticed, to simply rewrite history and hope that people have the attention span of a goldfish. Never have we mandated flu shots, and they are only 40 to 60% effective. I see the COVID vaccine in a similar boat, we can never plan for or protect against all the variants. If I was 65 years old I'd be getting the flu vaccine. However, if you're healthy it doesn't make as much sense. Sure, if you want it, you can get it but telling people that they'll be fired for not getting it is ridiculous. The OSHA rules is because of an emergency that they've known about for how long, and now they are delaying it until after Christmas? So much of an emergency, that they don't want it to impact Christmas workers. It is all BS.

Pyramus 5y ago
We don't live in a comic world - things aren't black and white. People die from the virus with or without vaccination - what matters is how many. > Never have we mandated flu shots Flu shots are already mandatory in many countries for many professions, e.g. in the US military. Should we encounter a pandemic strain with similar IFR as SARS-Cov-2 in the future (and the likelihood of that happening in the next 100 years is very high) I'm certain we will see mandates.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  Even the Flu shot, its not very clear that it actually does work, and is not just a statistical effect of selection bias. The people most likely to take the flue shot are already from a subgroup that cares more about their health, if you add in young and healthy people in the military it skews things even more. Sure you can show that the group that took the flue shot died less. But its mostly a statistical effect. The sickest people and the ones that are near death already, or neglect their health are the most at risk of dying from the flue. They're also the group that will not take the flue shot, or will not be prescribed. Its easy to convince yourself that cheering for your team has an effect on how well they play. The companies doing the research also have financial incentive to show that it works. But honestly, mandating a half walk everyday, will probably be more beneficial to the US population than any flue or covid vaccine. Since both diseases are so tied to BMI, weight and its complications like diabetes.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    This right here. Mandates are hypocritical and people are supposed to blindly accept that. It is hard to even bring it up in certain circle without automatically labeled a right-wing anti-vaxer Nazi who deserves to die.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  > People die from the virus with or without vaccination - what matters is how many. The narrative is constantly shifting. Government health agencies move goalposts faster than QAnon. We were told we could go back to normal with vaccines, and it simply isn't true. COVID isn't going away. A vaccine doesn't mean you still can't contract, spread and die from the virus. It is almost cynical at this point seeing Biden walking around without a mask, and other politicians in large groups without them until the cameras turn towards them and then they put them on. IMO almost all the restrictions have been in vain, and so those that were quick to get the vaccine after Biden pushed for it now just blame the people that didn't get it. Now we're being told that getting a vaccine only helps improve things marginally, but that they are still uncertain. Recent reports have even shown that more people are dying that are vaccinated than those that aren't. Statistics have always been pretty easy to manipulate. Remember when we were told that Hillary had a 98% chance of winning? Or Biden thought that Virginia was an easy win?
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
> If you were quick to get vaccinated, and then later found out that people who are vaccinated are still contracting, spreading and dying from the virus after being vaccinated Deniers like you see this and conclude that the vaccine as useful as salt water. Studies show there's less chance of contracing, spreading and dying with the vaccine than without. People still die in car accidents even though modern cars have ABS and airbags, so, maybe car manufacturers should just get rid of those things and sell cheaper cars, right?
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  It would be great if we could have these discussions without using phrases like "Deniers like you".
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  > Deniers like you? I don't know what you think I'm denying? > People still die in car accidents even though modern cars have ABS and airbags, so, maybe car manufacturers should just get rid of those things and sell cheaper cars, right? Should we just tell people to stop driving cars since they can cause accidents? I guess we should ban alcohol and cigarettes as well since they are a public health concern?
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    Car crashes and alcoholism aren't spreadable by breathing, the bad effects of alcoholism and cigarettes on other humans are less deadly than Covid. You're denying that the vaccine actually works. I take it you aren't arguing my point that it's a lot better than saline, since you didn't mention it in your response.

Pyramus 5y ago

We don't live in a comic world - things aren't black and white. People die from the virus with or without vaccination - what matters is how many. > Never have we mandated flu shots Flu shots are already mandatory in many countries for many professions, e.g. in the US military. Should we encounter a pandemic strain with similar IFR as SARS-Cov-2 in the future (and the likelihood of that happening in the next 100 years is very high) I'm certain we will see mandates.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
Even the Flu shot, its not very clear that it actually does work, and is not just a statistical effect of selection bias. The people most likely to take the flue shot are already from a subgroup that cares more about their health, if you add in young and healthy people in the military it skews things even more. Sure you can show that the group that took the flue shot died less. But its mostly a statistical effect. The sickest people and the ones that are near death already, or neglect their health are the most at risk of dying from the flue. They're also the group that will not take the flue shot, or will not be prescribed. Its easy to convince yourself that cheering for your team has an effect on how well they play. The companies doing the research also have financial incentive to show that it works. But honestly, mandating a half walk everyday, will probably be more beneficial to the US population than any flue or covid vaccine. Since both diseases are so tied to BMI, weight and its complications like diabetes.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  This right here. Mandates are hypocritical and people are supposed to blindly accept that. It is hard to even bring it up in certain circle without automatically labeled a right-wing anti-vaxer Nazi who deserves to die.
encryptluks2 5y ago
> People die from the virus with or without vaccination - what matters is how many. The narrative is constantly shifting. Government health agencies move goalposts faster than QAnon. We were told we could go back to normal with vaccines, and it simply isn't true. COVID isn't going away. A vaccine doesn't mean you still can't contract, spread and die from the virus. It is almost cynical at this point seeing Biden walking around without a mask, and other politicians in large groups without them until the cameras turn towards them and then they put them on. IMO almost all the restrictions have been in vain, and so those that were quick to get the vaccine after Biden pushed for it now just blame the people that didn't get it. Now we're being told that getting a vaccine only helps improve things marginally, but that they are still uncertain. Recent reports have even shown that more people are dying that are vaccinated than those that aren't. Statistics have always been pretty easy to manipulate. Remember when we were told that Hillary had a 98% chance of winning? Or Biden thought that Virginia was an easy win?

bellyfullofbac 5y ago

> If you were quick to get vaccinated, and then later found out that people who are vaccinated are still contracting, spreading and dying from the virus after being vaccinated Deniers like you see this and conclude that the vaccine as useful as salt water. Studies show there's less chance of contracing, spreading and dying with the vaccine than without. People still die in car accidents even though modern cars have ABS and airbags, so, maybe car manufacturers should just get rid of those things and sell cheaper cars, right?

rsj_hn 5y ago
It would be great if we could have these discussions without using phrases like "Deniers like you".
encryptluks2 5y ago
> Deniers like you? I don't know what you think I'm denying? > People still die in car accidents even though modern cars have ABS and airbags, so, maybe car manufacturers should just get rid of those things and sell cheaper cars, right? Should we just tell people to stop driving cars since they can cause accidents? I guess we should ban alcohol and cigarettes as well since they are a public health concern?
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  Car crashes and alcoholism aren't spreadable by breathing, the bad effects of alcoholism and cigarettes on other humans are less deadly than Covid. You're denying that the vaccine actually works. I take it you aren't arguing my point that it's a lot better than saline, since you didn't mention it in your response.