4 ms·

Every Firefox thread is filled with how sucky Firefox is, too. Might be driving just as many people to stay on Chrome.

by thatguy0900 5y ago

DeathArrow 5y ago
Recognizing that Firefox is sucky is the first step to make it unsucky.
- wisniewskit 5y ago
  Yet if all you ever do is talk about how sucky it is, then you're effectively just part of the PR wings of Firefox's competition.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    The saddest thing of all is: Up until relatively recently Firefox was a lot less sucky, but then Mozilla quite deliberately suckified it.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    Telling someone he might have a grave disease might convince him to go to a doctor and seek treatment. Firefox is not dying because HN users criticize it. HN users might even use Firefox in a greater proportion than the general public. We try to protest, we try to raise awareness of the current situation. If instead of doing that we would actually said that Firefox is dead, it would be more detrimental. Users will try it and make a lot of bad publicity. Mozilla Foundation management will use it to demonstrate they are doing a great job while continuing putting Firefox in danger. We can't take ownership of Firefox but we can pressure towards it getting better stewardship.
    - wisniewskit 5y ago
      Sure, keep telling yourself that you're the real hero. If folks like you really meant make a positive difference, you would have by now. Instead you endlessly try to take credit for "raising awareness" and "pressuring", which in reality just means leaving the actual work to others. You give yourself every excuse to not contribute anything tangible, then you blame them for failing while acting like some neglected oracle. Good on you for showing us how much better you are.
      - DeathArrow 5y ago
        >Sure, keep telling yourself that you're the real hero. If folks like you really meant make a positive difference, you would have by now. Instead you endlessly try to take credit for "raising awareness" and "pressuring", which in reality just means leaving the actual work to others. You give yourself every excuse to not contribute anything tangible, then you blame them for failing while acting like some neglected oracle. Good on you for showing us how much better you are. I don't get why you use a so dismissive tone? I replied to a comment that wasn't just about me but about all HN users criticizing current state in which Firefox is. What do you expect from us? Donate money to a mismanaged product so the management can raise their bonuses? Quit our jobs and start forking Firefox? Nobody is a hero. Just some people are not sticking their heads in the sand because sticking heads in the sand wouldn't help.
        skinkestek 5y ago
        > Donate money to a mismanaged product so the management can raise their bonuses? Quit our jobs and start forking Firefox? To make it worse you cannot donate towards the product, only towards the management (!) They are quite clear about this if you ask the right questions, but not until then so I guess a lot of people think they have donated towards the browser and have instead sponsored the foundation that milks the browser company dry (seriously USD500M a year is quite some money).
        CRConrad 5y ago
        OT: Snart är det jul. Mmm, skinkstek...
        wisniewskit 5y ago
        I would only like a bit more than the endless negativity, that's all. If you can't even offer that much, then why would I ever expect anything more? It's easy to blame others and excuse yourself, but if I could find the will to get a job at Mozilla to try to help the company to a better end, then why can't some of you folks who always act like you have all the answers? If we aren't willing or able to do better than Mozilla, then we're stuck with the Mozilla we get, no matter how much we complain about it.
skinkestek 5y ago
Oh well, there's no harm in trying Firefox. For anybody who are similar to me and has a similar workload, Firefox is still much better, it just isn't order of magnitudes anymore.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  IMO it isn't even "much" any more.

Every Firefox thread is filled with how sucky Firefox is, too. Might be driving just as many people to stay on Chrome.

DeathArrow 5y ago

Recognizing that Firefox is sucky is the first step to make it unsucky.

wisniewskit 5y ago
Yet if all you ever do is talk about how sucky it is, then you're effectively just part of the PR wings of Firefox's competition.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  The saddest thing of all is: Up until relatively recently Firefox was a lot less sucky, but then Mozilla quite deliberately suckified it.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  Telling someone he might have a grave disease might convince him to go to a doctor and seek treatment. Firefox is not dying because HN users criticize it. HN users might even use Firefox in a greater proportion than the general public. We try to protest, we try to raise awareness of the current situation. If instead of doing that we would actually said that Firefox is dead, it would be more detrimental. Users will try it and make a lot of bad publicity. Mozilla Foundation management will use it to demonstrate they are doing a great job while continuing putting Firefox in danger. We can't take ownership of Firefox but we can pressure towards it getting better stewardship.
  - wisniewskit 5y ago
    Sure, keep telling yourself that you're the real hero. If folks like you really meant make a positive difference, you would have by now. Instead you endlessly try to take credit for "raising awareness" and "pressuring", which in reality just means leaving the actual work to others. You give yourself every excuse to not contribute anything tangible, then you blame them for failing while acting like some neglected oracle. Good on you for showing us how much better you are.
    - DeathArrow 5y ago
      >Sure, keep telling yourself that you're the real hero. If folks like you really meant make a positive difference, you would have by now. Instead you endlessly try to take credit for "raising awareness" and "pressuring", which in reality just means leaving the actual work to others. You give yourself every excuse to not contribute anything tangible, then you blame them for failing while acting like some neglected oracle. Good on you for showing us how much better you are. I don't get why you use a so dismissive tone? I replied to a comment that wasn't just about me but about all HN users criticizing current state in which Firefox is. What do you expect from us? Donate money to a mismanaged product so the management can raise their bonuses? Quit our jobs and start forking Firefox? Nobody is a hero. Just some people are not sticking their heads in the sand because sticking heads in the sand wouldn't help.
      - skinkestek 5y ago
        > Donate money to a mismanaged product so the management can raise their bonuses? Quit our jobs and start forking Firefox? To make it worse you cannot donate towards the product, only towards the management (!) They are quite clear about this if you ask the right questions, but not until then so I guess a lot of people think they have donated towards the browser and have instead sponsored the foundation that milks the browser company dry (seriously USD500M a year is quite some money).
        CRConrad 5y ago
        OT: Snart är det jul. Mmm, skinkstek...
      - wisniewskit 5y ago
        I would only like a bit more than the endless negativity, that's all. If you can't even offer that much, then why would I ever expect anything more? It's easy to blame others and excuse yourself, but if I could find the will to get a job at Mozilla to try to help the company to a better end, then why can't some of you folks who always act like you have all the answers? If we aren't willing or able to do better than Mozilla, then we're stuck with the Mozilla we get, no matter how much we complain about it.

skinkestek 5y ago

Oh well, there's no harm in trying Firefox. For anybody who are similar to me and has a similar workload, Firefox is still much better, it just isn't order of magnitudes anymore.

CRConrad 5y ago
IMO it isn't even "much" any more.