5 ms·

Also, publicly naming the manager is pretty bad karma. It's like they're anticipating or expecting some Twitter pile on.

blip54321 5y ago
Yeah. That was a bad call. Having been a manager, about 1/10th of employees had... issues. Those employees took up an inordinate amount of management time and especially energy. I don't know whether she or her manager were the problem; in most cases, it's 50/50. If I know a potential hire had issues before, it raises the risk of a hire a lot. I want to avoid that kind of employee. If they act unprofessionally after leaving, that goes up to 95/5. Perhaps her boss had issues, but she definitely did as well. Posting a list of management emails? Naming her boss publicly? That goes to a serious red flag. When I was managing, I would never have hired someone who did this. The risk goes in several directions too. Since then, I've picked up a harassing stalker. Having an employee do this sort of thing went from psychologically draining to potentially devastating to my safety. Privacy is kind of important.
- pg_1234 5y ago
  well ... is it this Elizabeth Weber (https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethaweber/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethaweber/) because if so ... ex Amazon, so odds are toxic.
  - rStar 5y ago
    ding ding ding
- rStar 5y ago
  don’t abuse your employees
evgen 5y ago
Naming their manager in twitter complaint and then asking people to spam every node in the org chart from their manager up to Sundar. Yeah, that is going to get the results you want...
- Ecstatify 5y ago
  Not the best move but at the same time what else is there she can do? Being young, in your "dream job" and then being told "there’s someone waiting outside to collect your corp devices" without any real explanation. It's 100% HR + Managers fault that this situation has escalated to this. If a future employer asks for a reference from Google she's screwed. This whole "don't say anything bad about X, it will reflect badly on you" is how the Epsteins and Weinsteins of the world go undetected for years. If what she says is true she should probably go to a lawyer and sue.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    This is a weird one. Google is notoriously slow to fire people for performance reasons. People get Needs Improvement ratings. They go on PIPs. It takes ages. A sudden termination typically means something else. This can either mean that the individual did something especially foolish or a lot of people are doing the wrong thing to get this person fired (a manager, a skip, some people in HR, and probably a director would be involved in this sort of thing). But the complaints here seem to be related to performance management. Getting a frustratingly low rating. Being told that they aren't doing enough work. For this sort of situation I'd expect the firing process to take months. "CME for missing a meeting" is strange, but the good news is that manager calibration notes are stored in durable systems and in many locales people have the legal right to see them. So it'd be possible to see if this was actually the reason for a rating. We'll see if more information comes out.
    - 0xy 5y ago
      The individual was very likely on a PIP. They mentioned "performance issues". It could've went on for months. If a manager really wants you gone they can manufacture evidence and have you yanked quickly by constructing unobtainable and/or subjective PIP targets.
      - UncleMeat 5y ago
        It may depend on the org, but in my org at Google there is a ton of oversight in PIP construction. I've not ever personally seen unobtainable or subjective PIP targets. It'd also be extremely odd to be on a PIP after receiving a Consistently Meets Expectations rating. Only a subset of Needs Improvement ratings actually get PIPs. CME, by definition, means that you are doing your job sufficiently.
pg_1234 5y ago
Not at all, ALWAYS name the bad managers ... it's the only way they will face repercussions, and the only way to deter others from following in their footsteps.
- rStar 5y ago
  google is so big nobody can get anyone else’s attention. so making a public stink, while very questionable otherwise, may get someone’s attention who’s able to fix this mess
- blip54321 5y ago
  It does deter others from following in their footsteps. Once name-and-shame comes in, that deters anyone but the super-privileged from going into management. No one who can't weather name-and-shame will go for jobs like that. Name-and-shame is... random. I've never been hit, but the people I've seen hit... It hasn't had much to do with them, so much as with the people doing the shaming.
rStar 5y ago
name and shame. only way to change

blip54321 5y ago

Yeah. That was a bad call. Having been a manager, about 1/10th of employees had... issues. Those employees took up an inordinate amount of management time and especially energy. I don't know whether she or her manager were the problem; in most cases, it's 50/50. If I know a potential hire had issues before, it raises the risk of a hire a lot. I want to avoid that kind of employee. If they act unprofessionally after leaving, that goes up to 95/5. Perhaps her boss had issues, but she definitely did as well. Posting a list of management emails? Naming her boss publicly? That goes to a serious red flag. When I was managing, I would never have hired someone who did this. The risk goes in several directions too. Since then, I've picked up a harassing stalker. Having an employee do this sort of thing went from psychologically draining to potentially devastating to my safety. Privacy is kind of important.

pg_1234 5y ago
well ... is it this Elizabeth Weber (https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethaweber/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethaweber/) because if so ... ex Amazon, so odds are toxic.
- rStar 5y ago
  ding ding ding
rStar 5y ago
don’t abuse your employees

evgen 5y ago

Naming their manager in twitter complaint and then asking people to spam every node in the org chart from their manager up to Sundar. Yeah, that is going to get the results you want...

Ecstatify 5y ago
Not the best move but at the same time what else is there she can do? Being young, in your "dream job" and then being told "there’s someone waiting outside to collect your corp devices" without any real explanation. It's 100% HR + Managers fault that this situation has escalated to this. If a future employer asks for a reference from Google she's screwed. This whole "don't say anything bad about X, it will reflect badly on you" is how the Epsteins and Weinsteins of the world go undetected for years. If what she says is true she should probably go to a lawyer and sue.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  This is a weird one. Google is notoriously slow to fire people for performance reasons. People get Needs Improvement ratings. They go on PIPs. It takes ages. A sudden termination typically means something else. This can either mean that the individual did something especially foolish or a lot of people are doing the wrong thing to get this person fired (a manager, a skip, some people in HR, and probably a director would be involved in this sort of thing). But the complaints here seem to be related to performance management. Getting a frustratingly low rating. Being told that they aren't doing enough work. For this sort of situation I'd expect the firing process to take months. "CME for missing a meeting" is strange, but the good news is that manager calibration notes are stored in durable systems and in many locales people have the legal right to see them. So it'd be possible to see if this was actually the reason for a rating. We'll see if more information comes out.
  - 0xy 5y ago
    The individual was very likely on a PIP. They mentioned "performance issues". It could've went on for months. If a manager really wants you gone they can manufacture evidence and have you yanked quickly by constructing unobtainable and/or subjective PIP targets.
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      It may depend on the org, but in my org at Google there is a ton of oversight in PIP construction. I've not ever personally seen unobtainable or subjective PIP targets. It'd also be extremely odd to be on a PIP after receiving a Consistently Meets Expectations rating. Only a subset of Needs Improvement ratings actually get PIPs. CME, by definition, means that you are doing your job sufficiently.

pg_1234 5y ago

Not at all, ALWAYS name the bad managers ... it's the only way they will face repercussions, and the only way to deter others from following in their footsteps.

rStar 5y ago
google is so big nobody can get anyone else’s attention. so making a public stink, while very questionable otherwise, may get someone’s attention who’s able to fix this mess
blip54321 5y ago
It does deter others from following in their footsteps. Once name-and-shame comes in, that deters anyone but the super-privileged from going into management. No one who can't weather name-and-shame will go for jobs like that. Name-and-shame is... random. I've never been hit, but the people I've seen hit... It hasn't had much to do with them, so much as with the people doing the shaming.

rStar 5y ago

name and shame. only way to change