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Broadly speaking, modern developers don’t have to deal with resource limitations (neither computing nor financial) so they instead devote that extra energy on c

Broadly speaking, modern developers don’t have to deal with resource limitations (neither computing nor financial) so they instead devote that extra energy on completely unnecessary orchestration systems and build toolchains to feel like they’re doing something complex and challenging.

dehrmann 5y ago
There are definitely startups with enough cash to spend time polishing their their CI systems, but I suspect the pressure in the game industry means this doesn't happen. That said, I have zero experience in the game industry.
zekrioca 5y ago
Developers “didn’t feel like”, they were actually doing something complex, given the limitations of that time and context.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- andromaton 5y ago
  Im not sure i understand, but I can tell you it felt good when one learned that setting the stack pointer and using push and pop was faster than using register indirect addressing, bit twiddling to avoid multiplying or dividing, and fitting a mm/dd/yy on 14 bits. Constraints fuels a certain type of creativity. This is not absent today, but less frequent.
- dreyfan 5y ago
  Right. I think it's mostly subconscious. If you crank out CRUD app or some basic FPS in Unity, you're left wanting more and turn to the toolchain to find that complexity. 25 years ago, devs had no unmet craving after optimizing netcode for an 8-player game with 28.8k users or implementing another soundcard API by hand.
billti 5y ago
I’d hazard a guess the VR development for platforms like Quest, where you’re effectively trying to render stereo at 90fps on mobile chipsets AND deal with the physical environment, is bringing back a lot of those “get every last cycle out of the hardware” skills.
izacus 5y ago
> Broadly speaking, modern developers don’t have to deal with resource limitations (neither computing nor financial) so they instead devote that extra energy on completely unnecessary orchestration systems and build toolchains to feel like they’re doing something complex and challenging. That is massively far from truth. Rendering graphics to the level modern games require is driving even current powerful hardware to its limits and it's far from "not having to deal with resource limitations". Your post seems to be horribly condescending and not realising just how much work goes into squeezeing performance from modern GPUs and consoles.
- dreyfan 5y ago
  Sure, but there are <1% of the games being produced that need to tackle those problems. Look at the most of 10,000+ games released on Steam or the endless mobile games released over the past year. For every Naughty Dog, Riot, Take-Two, CDPR, or Bethesda, there are thousands of garbage studios. Thus my “Broadly speaking” caveat.

dehrmann 5y ago

There are definitely startups with enough cash to spend time polishing their their CI systems, but I suspect the pressure in the game industry means this doesn't happen. That said, I have zero experience in the game industry.

zekrioca 5y ago

Developers “didn’t feel like”, they were actually doing something complex, given the limitations of that time and context.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
andromaton 5y ago
Im not sure i understand, but I can tell you it felt good when one learned that setting the stack pointer and using push and pop was faster than using register indirect addressing, bit twiddling to avoid multiplying or dividing, and fitting a mm/dd/yy on 14 bits. Constraints fuels a certain type of creativity. This is not absent today, but less frequent.
dreyfan 5y ago
Right. I think it's mostly subconscious. If you crank out CRUD app or some basic FPS in Unity, you're left wanting more and turn to the toolchain to find that complexity. 25 years ago, devs had no unmet craving after optimizing netcode for an 8-player game with 28.8k users or implementing another soundcard API by hand.

billti 5y ago

I’d hazard a guess the VR development for platforms like Quest, where you’re effectively trying to render stereo at 90fps on mobile chipsets AND deal with the physical environment, is bringing back a lot of those “get every last cycle out of the hardware” skills.

izacus 5y ago

> Broadly speaking, modern developers don’t have to deal with resource limitations (neither computing nor financial) so they instead devote that extra energy on completely unnecessary orchestration systems and build toolchains to feel like they’re doing something complex and challenging. That is massively far from truth. Rendering graphics to the level modern games require is driving even current powerful hardware to its limits and it's far from "not having to deal with resource limitations". Your post seems to be horribly condescending and not realising just how much work goes into squeezeing performance from modern GPUs and consoles.

dreyfan 5y ago
Sure, but there are <1% of the games being produced that need to tackle those problems. Look at the most of 10,000+ games released on Steam or the endless mobile games released over the past year. For every Naughty Dog, Riot, Take-Two, CDPR, or Bethesda, there are thousands of garbage studios. Thus my “Broadly speaking” caveat.