4 ms·

Many new/inexperienced programmers love complexity. I used to get into exploring every nook and cranny of every config file and endlessly tweaking settings. N

Many new/inexperienced programmers love complexity. I used to get into exploring every nook and cranny of every config file and endlessly tweaking settings. Now I strive to use everything with default settings if at all possible.

da_chicken 5y ago
Yup. When I have to install it for the sixth time the last thing I want to do is remember what I had to configure the fifth time and what I had learned that I needed to stop configuring from the third and fourth times. Now I want my operating system and my tools to shut up and get out of my way because whatever irrelevant thing they think is important is not what I ever need to be working on.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
> Many new/inexperienced programmers love complexity. Not sure if you're trying to argue that Linus was a "new/inexperienced" programmer when he first wrote git. I think the "it's too complex" argument against git is misplaced, or at least not complete. I don't find git "complicated for complexity's" sake (e.g. looking at Enterprise Java Beans back in the day), but it has a very specific workflow in mind for its conceptual model, and if you don't understand that conceptual model, you're just going to be confused. It took me a while to grok that model, but once I did it clicked and I understood it. Not saying it's optimal, but it also has a lot of benefits.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  OpenBSD uses CVS to develop an entire OS, kernel and userland. Git's complexity is not required.
- da_chicken 5y ago
  Exposing the user to the totality of the complexity of the problem is, perhaps, the most complete and indefensible failure of an otherwise successful software design that I can imagine.
  - couchand 5y ago
    All abstractions are leaky, but an abstraction meant to never lose the work of a power user is maybe more defensibly leaky than average.
- whynotmaybe 5y ago
  Whatever I read about Linus seems to imply that he is far smarter than me but git is a great tool for his personal purposes. This is an 18wheeler that can haul anything but for "basic" dev doing simple administrative apps, a bicycle VCS is more than enough. A lot of dev I've met don't even understand the deep ramifications of multiples branches with any VCS so understanding the complexity of git is way above what we require of them. Git has a lot of benefits but I'm not quite sure that it's really a good thing that it is slowly becoming the de facto standard. Wait and see...

da_chicken 5y ago

Yup. When I have to install it for the sixth time the last thing I want to do is remember what I had to configure the fifth time and what I had learned that I needed to stop configuring from the third and fourth times. Now I want my operating system and my tools to shut up and get out of my way because whatever irrelevant thing they think is important is not what I ever need to be working on.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

> Many new/inexperienced programmers love complexity. Not sure if you're trying to argue that Linus was a "new/inexperienced" programmer when he first wrote git. I think the "it's too complex" argument against git is misplaced, or at least not complete. I don't find git "complicated for complexity's" sake (e.g. looking at Enterprise Java Beans back in the day), but it has a very specific workflow in mind for its conceptual model, and if you don't understand that conceptual model, you're just going to be confused. It took me a while to grok that model, but once I did it clicked and I understood it. Not saying it's optimal, but it also has a lot of benefits.

throwawayboise 5y ago
OpenBSD uses CVS to develop an entire OS, kernel and userland. Git's complexity is not required.
da_chicken 5y ago
Exposing the user to the totality of the complexity of the problem is, perhaps, the most complete and indefensible failure of an otherwise successful software design that I can imagine.
- couchand 5y ago
  All abstractions are leaky, but an abstraction meant to never lose the work of a power user is maybe more defensibly leaky than average.
whynotmaybe 5y ago
Whatever I read about Linus seems to imply that he is far smarter than me but git is a great tool for his personal purposes. This is an 18wheeler that can haul anything but for "basic" dev doing simple administrative apps, a bicycle VCS is more than enough. A lot of dev I've met don't even understand the deep ramifications of multiples branches with any VCS so understanding the complexity of git is way above what we require of them. Git has a lot of benefits but I'm not quite sure that it's really a good thing that it is slowly becoming the de facto standard. Wait and see...