3 ms·

Well, kind of. 1) There really is no such thing as 'Vaccine Risk' in the material sense, any more than we would us language such as 'Flying Risk'. Esp. in the

Well, kind of. 1) There really is no such thing as 'Vaccine Risk' in the material sense, any more than we would us language such as 'Flying Risk'. Esp. in the US where thee is no AZ vaccine, the risk is negligible. 'The Vaccine Risk' in the minds of many people isn't consistent with the reality, and it's a major communications problem. Anti-vaxxers are internalizing and propagandizing a degree of risk that just isn't real, leading to bad health outcomes. Sure, technically, it's a risk, but so is anything else. 2) 'No push for 100% Vaccine' - maybe not for '100%' but we really need to push hard on vaccines. COVID is not scary because it's excessively deadly. It's scary because it's excessively viral, meaning, it's a community disease, less so an individual disease. Stopping COVID means stoping the spread, not trying to cure people when they get it. With 95% vaccination, R0 drops below 1 and so hospitalization rates are low, we can focus on the hard cases. With 0% vaccination and a 85% effective drug, well, 'everyone' will get COVID, and a scary number of them will die. The 'Best Answer' by far in a world where vaccines are very safe, very cheap, and very effective - is to get 'as many as we can' vaccinated. And then use the expensive drugs on the hard cases.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
For endemic viruses that also spread through domestic pets 95% becomes unobtainable unless we start going after the 100,000,000 domestic pets in the US alone.
- jollybean 5y ago
  We don't know the likelihood that it spreads through pets, pets also have owners who make up the entirety of their interactions (ie pets don't take the bus, go to restaurants, go to work or school) so of owners are vaxxed we're kosher. As for endemic, yes, a problem, but of a different kind.
UnFleshedOne 5y ago
All risks are relative, yes. Covid risk is also negligible for some groups (like small children), it is very likely very comparable or smaller than the tiny vaccine risk. There is a lot of propagandizing degrees of risk across all tribes -- democrats wildly overestimating risk of hospitalization and republicans wildly underestimating it. But what about 75% vaccination (lots of countries are there already or very close) and 85% effective drug? How much effort much be spent on hunting down every last antivaxxer and how many side effects of that are acceptable? (like destroying public support for vaccine mandates in general, creating nice shiny tools for the next wannabe authoritarian, etc)
spydum 5y ago
Most people see themselves as healthy and thus in the pool of "very unlikely to have complications from COVID-19" pool. Argue with that however you want (people being dishonest with their own perception of health), but that's how they see it. So taking preventative measures because it is forced down their throats seems hostile. Made worse that 1) vax won't stop the spread, or we would have seen that by now, and 2) we need to boost the vax every few months? That sounds highly suspect to a lot of people. If you were at risk, you can get vaccinated, why force a healthy person? (The answer is mostly for the folks who can't vaccinate, but those folks are screwed any way you look at this pandemic if we are honest).
- gonational 5y ago
  +1 Not to mention, everyone I know knows at least one person who had a stroke within weeks of getting one of the "vaccines", I know three. Previous to this past year I've known one person in my entire life that had a stroke, and it was my wife's uncle who was in his 90s.
  - daddylongstroke 5y ago
    My friend's mom technically died in a clinical sense 5 minutes post first jab while still in the parking lot under observation. My other friend's brother dropped dead exactly 36 hours post 2nd jab. Both were zapped back to life. One of them had a pre-existing heart condition. I know at least one ER RN that readily admits they're seeing a high increase in ER cases of young (20s) people with various neurological and cardiac issues 1-14 days post vaccine (and are almost never treating them as vaccine-caused issues hence they stay unreported). The apologists will say things like "but you don't know it was the vaccine". Sure, you're never 100% positive about anything dealing with as complex system as a human body. What you should do is start with "what has changed recently", and almost always the patients that my RN wife handles say "I've been recently vaccinated.".
  - atleta 5y ago
    You can't do stats like this. Even if it seems like a small error or being overly pedantic, it doesn't work for a pretty large number of obvious and less obvious reasons. Vaccine side effect tracking is done pretty thoroughly, so if what you see would be a real and generic phenomenon, it would have been noticed by now.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

For endemic viruses that also spread through domestic pets 95% becomes unobtainable unless we start going after the 100,000,000 domestic pets in the US alone.

jollybean 5y ago
We don't know the likelihood that it spreads through pets, pets also have owners who make up the entirety of their interactions (ie pets don't take the bus, go to restaurants, go to work or school) so of owners are vaxxed we're kosher. As for endemic, yes, a problem, but of a different kind.

UnFleshedOne 5y ago

All risks are relative, yes. Covid risk is also negligible for some groups (like small children), it is very likely very comparable or smaller than the tiny vaccine risk. There is a lot of propagandizing degrees of risk across all tribes -- democrats wildly overestimating risk of hospitalization and republicans wildly underestimating it. But what about 75% vaccination (lots of countries are there already or very close) and 85% effective drug? How much effort much be spent on hunting down every last antivaxxer and how many side effects of that are acceptable? (like destroying public support for vaccine mandates in general, creating nice shiny tools for the next wannabe authoritarian, etc)

spydum 5y ago

Most people see themselves as healthy and thus in the pool of "very unlikely to have complications from COVID-19" pool. Argue with that however you want (people being dishonest with their own perception of health), but that's how they see it. So taking preventative measures because it is forced down their throats seems hostile. Made worse that 1) vax won't stop the spread, or we would have seen that by now, and 2) we need to boost the vax every few months? That sounds highly suspect to a lot of people. If you were at risk, you can get vaccinated, why force a healthy person? (The answer is mostly for the folks who can't vaccinate, but those folks are screwed any way you look at this pandemic if we are honest).

gonational 5y ago
+1 Not to mention, everyone I know knows at least one person who had a stroke within weeks of getting one of the "vaccines", I know three. Previous to this past year I've known one person in my entire life that had a stroke, and it was my wife's uncle who was in his 90s.
- daddylongstroke 5y ago
  My friend's mom technically died in a clinical sense 5 minutes post first jab while still in the parking lot under observation. My other friend's brother dropped dead exactly 36 hours post 2nd jab. Both were zapped back to life. One of them had a pre-existing heart condition. I know at least one ER RN that readily admits they're seeing a high increase in ER cases of young (20s) people with various neurological and cardiac issues 1-14 days post vaccine (and are almost never treating them as vaccine-caused issues hence they stay unreported). The apologists will say things like "but you don't know it was the vaccine". Sure, you're never 100% positive about anything dealing with as complex system as a human body. What you should do is start with "what has changed recently", and almost always the patients that my RN wife handles say "I've been recently vaccinated.".
- atleta 5y ago
  You can't do stats like this. Even if it seems like a small error or being overly pedantic, it doesn't work for a pretty large number of obvious and less obvious reasons. Vaccine side effect tracking is done pretty thoroughly, so if what you see would be a real and generic phenomenon, it would have been noticed by now.