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Do you have a source for that? "fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficientl

Do you have a source for that? "fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts." [1] [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext#seccestitle160 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
I too can google: https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-infectious-fully-vaccinated-people-clear-virus-quicker-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-...
- miked85 5y ago
  So I guess we can just choose which study to believe.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    Rules of thumb: a) choose the later study b) look at what happens in the real world (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124652 ) And, If there is uncertainty (and there always is some small amount of it) then this does not support the parent commenter's strong and confident assertion that "do not, and never have" ... produced an effect.
    - miked85 5y ago
      a) we are in a small enough time frame that the latest doesn't mean it is more accurate b) in the real world, we had our biggest outbreak after vaccines were mainstream
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > in the real world, we had our biggest outbreak after vaccines were mainstream Is that supposed to be relevant? When "we had our biggest outbreak" there were/are still sufficient unvaccinated people to transmit an outbreak. You're clearly defending a fixed point of view here. If you want detailed responses to learn from, stop asking for people to do them yet again and look for what already exists upthread. If you're having trouble finding it, start here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124446
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - atleta 5y ago
    Only if you are looking to reinforce your beliefs. Otherwise, besides the above two strategies, you should look at which study has better methodology (though it's usually never trivial, especially not for us, bystanders), bigger sample size, stronger statistical power. If none of these seem to suggest a clear winner then you should just think that this is still undecided. You can also ask an expert. Choosing one and believing is basically just going with your suspicion.
tylerhou 5y ago
This study is for household transmission in an extended setting. That's not the same as transmission e.g. in an outdoor environment or for short, casual contact. Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected, hence "breakthrough case." Your quote is like saying that "people thrown out of windows in car crashes have the same rate of injury, despite whether the person was wearing a seatbelt or not." That may be true, but wearing a seatbelt definitely reduces the chance of getting thrown out of a window.
elliekelly 5y ago
You can’t spread it if you never get it...
- miked85 5y ago
  I agree. How do you not get it?
  - atleta 5y ago
    Surprise: get vaccinated. And now you'll say that "but you can get it even if you are vaccinated". Which is true, but of course less likely. How much less likely is known from the experiments.
    - miked85 5y ago
      of course.
      - atleta 5y ago
        Just because you don't line an answer to a question you posted it doesn't mean that's not the right answer. But it does imply, I guess, that you'll keep posting this same question and robbing others' time.
    - curmudgeon22 5y ago
      As far as I’m aware, the experiments covered symptomatic cases but didn’t look at a reduction in “getting it”. Based on this study, vaccinated had a 25% chance vs 38% for unvaccinated to become infected if someone in their household had Covid. So a helpful reduction, but not night and day. Once infected, from what I’ve read vaccinated folks are just as likely to spread it. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2638 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2638

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

I too can google: https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-infectious-fully-vaccinated-people-clear-virus-quicker-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-...

miked85 5y ago
So I guess we can just choose which study to believe.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Rules of thumb: a) choose the later study b) look at what happens in the real world (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124652 ) And, If there is uncertainty (and there always is some small amount of it) then this does not support the parent commenter's strong and confident assertion that "do not, and never have" ... produced an effect.
  - miked85 5y ago
    a) we are in a small enough time frame that the latest doesn't mean it is more accurate b) in the real world, we had our biggest outbreak after vaccines were mainstream
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > in the real world, we had our biggest outbreak after vaccines were mainstream Is that supposed to be relevant? When "we had our biggest outbreak" there were/are still sufficient unvaccinated people to transmit an outbreak. You're clearly defending a fixed point of view here. If you want detailed responses to learn from, stop asking for people to do them yet again and look for what already exists upthread. If you're having trouble finding it, start here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29124446
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- atleta 5y ago
  Only if you are looking to reinforce your beliefs. Otherwise, besides the above two strategies, you should look at which study has better methodology (though it's usually never trivial, especially not for us, bystanders), bigger sample size, stronger statistical power. If none of these seem to suggest a clear winner then you should just think that this is still undecided. You can also ask an expert. Choosing one and believing is basically just going with your suspicion.

tylerhou 5y ago

This study is for household transmission in an extended setting. That's not the same as transmission e.g. in an outdoor environment or for short, casual contact. Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected, hence "breakthrough case." Your quote is like saying that "people thrown out of windows in car crashes have the same rate of injury, despite whether the person was wearing a seatbelt or not." That may be true, but wearing a seatbelt definitely reduces the chance of getting thrown out of a window.

elliekelly 5y ago

You can’t spread it if you never get it...

miked85 5y ago
I agree. How do you not get it?
- atleta 5y ago
  Surprise: get vaccinated. And now you'll say that "but you can get it even if you are vaccinated". Which is true, but of course less likely. How much less likely is known from the experiments.
  - miked85 5y ago
    of course.
    - atleta 5y ago
      Just because you don't line an answer to a question you posted it doesn't mean that's not the right answer. But it does imply, I guess, that you'll keep posting this same question and robbing others' time.
  - curmudgeon22 5y ago
    As far as I’m aware, the experiments covered symptomatic cases but didn’t look at a reduction in “getting it”. Based on this study, vaccinated had a 25% chance vs 38% for unvaccinated to become infected if someone in their household had Covid. So a helpful reduction, but not night and day. Once infected, from what I’ve read vaccinated folks are just as likely to spread it. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2638 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2638