6 ms·

Your startup probably isn't a platform

38 points by gregpilling 15y ago

jgilliam 15y ago
How is Amazon not a platform? Completely leaving aside AWS (which the author does mention): a. it has zillions of stores selling through it b. a whole generation of small businesses have been built by people selling used books, cds and dvds. c. anyone can publish their own books, cds and dvds d. anyone can use their fulfillment services and payment services e. digital video and music f. kindle
- maaku 15y ago
  The author lost all credibility at that point.
- davedx 15y ago
  It's an (albeit extremely large and diverse) e-commerce website, not a platform. What software do you build that runs on top of Amazon?
  - lukeschlather 15y ago
    You don't build software, you build businesses. I don't know what percentage of the merchandise available on Amazon is available from 3rd party retailers through the marketplace, but there is a lot.
    - davedx 15y ago
      That's the point! A platform (at least in IT) is software (usually a stack of software) that you build other software to run on.
  - byoung2 15y ago
    It's an (albeit extremely large and diverse) e-commerce website, not a platform. What software do you build that runs on top of Amazon? Ignoring AWS, there are lots of complex systems you can build on top of Amazon. One example is Fulfillment by Amazon. You can integrate this service with your ecommerce website, and Amazon can warehouse your inventory in its facilities nationwide, charging you based on the volume of your inventory. They will automatically select a warehouse closest to your clients that has your item in stock and pack and ship it, and even order more inventory from your supplier when a certain warehouse inventory level falls below a certain threshold. It is basically S3 backed CloudFront for physical goods.
    - ja2ke 15y ago
      Fulfillment seems like a service. You don't build a business on someone else's warehouse, you use their warehouse to support your business. Unless someone's writing a "Fulfillment by Amazon Client" and selling it, I guess.
      - byoung2 15y ago
        You don't build a business on someone else's warehouse From the article: A software platform is truly a foundation on which entire businesses can be built. It encompasses not just a technical infrastructure but also a user experience framework, usually some form of a selling channel, and a defined large-scale developer ecosystem If that isn't the very definition of Amazon, I don't know what is. In theory I could build an entire business on top of Amazon's infrastructure (and not just a software business). I could have outsourced labor write or edit content using Mechanical Turk. I could publish it using Amazon's self-publishing tools. I could sell it through Amazon's marketplace or on an ecommerce site hosted on AWS. I could collect payments using Amazon FPS. I can ship products using Fulfillment by Amazon. You most certainly can build a business using someone else's warehouse, just as Heroku and RightScale can build businesses on someone else's datacenter. Fulfillment is a service, but is is a PaaS - a robust logistics platform as a service.
        ja2ke 15y ago
        I read the article. This thread started with "S3/AWS aside." I think "Amazon" isn't a platform because it's not a single thing ("Facebook"), but Amazon offers a number of services which can be used in concert. Maybe those are actually the same in practice, but they exist in different spaces in my brain.
    - davedx 15y ago
      It's certainly an involved and interesting service they're providing there, but it's still not a platform. You aren't writing software that runs on top of their software, you're connecting to their software with your own software. Those are two different things. Windows is a platform. Heroku is a platform. Facebook is a platform (barely). Android is a platform. These are things you write software for that sits on top of their existing stack. Something providing webservices, no matter how many there are or how much business they generate, is not a platform.
- cwp 15y ago
  Not only that, but the author dismisses AWS because it's expensive and brings in a small portion of Amazon's revenue. By that standard neither Android nor Xbox are platforms.
jcc80 15y ago
"At least for me, pitching a business as a platform when it really isn't tends to degrade what might be a really interesting vision and story in and of itself." I suppose, but that's a pretty small downside. For others pitching yourself as a platform can lead to more buzz, more possibilities and of course...maybe a higher valuation. And, fact is you can't know where things are going so you might as well build & position yourself as a platform if it makes sense.
- hack_edu 15y ago
  So, vigorously insist it's a duck even if it can't quack. Sleaze is the fastest route to funding? I'm all too reminded of Saturday's NYT article[1] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/technology/silicon-valley-booms-but-worries-about-a-new-bust.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/technology/silicon-valley-...
  - davedx 15y ago
    Marketing 101 ;)
  - jcc80 15y ago
    "vigorously insist" & "sleaze"? Someone may have a case of the Monday's...:) Maybe you read something into it that wasn't written (you'll notice I ended w/ "if it makes sense.") Anyways, point was you don't know where you'll end up so think big and go for it.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - hack_edu 15y ago
      I will concede my Mondays half-caffeinated status at the point of writing. My tone was a bit strong but I stand by my commentary. :)
freddealmeida 15y ago
The use of platform, in the creative agency space is somewhat different. A platform doesn't need to have an eco-system if it creates value for the consumer and develops a community around that value. In this sense Nike+ is a platform. Twitter is too. The idea that a startup is only a platform if one can build on top of it, may be taking the idea too far.
cek 15y ago
What you are building is either an app or a platform. If you try to make it both you will fail. And there are very few (if any) examples of successful platforms that started as a platform.
- cek 15y ago
  Surprised this got down voted. Maybe I should explain further. Point 1: If a startup tries to be both an "app" and a "platform" it will fail. In my experience, when building a new product, teams need to make a choice very early on whether they are building something that is all about end-user value/experience ("an app") or all about 3rd party value ("a platform"). Groups that attempt to do both lack focus. They don't do a great job building a great user experience and they don't do a great job building the platform because these two things are in tension. Example: enabling a 3rd party plug-in model requires the creation of UI that is often complex from a user's perspective. The investment in that UI to make it great (especially at an early stage when you don't really know what or how many 3rd party extensions will get built) could be better spent on building end-user-valuable functionality in the core of the product. This point is all about focus. To be successful startups need extreme focus. Point 2: There are very few (if any) examples of successful platforms that started as a pure platform. Name a few successful "platforms". Before you do, for the sake of argument, agree with me that "successful platform" implies the platform has a vibrant set of independent partners who both contribute to and "profit" from the platform. I could also use the term "virtuous platfrom" which has come to mean a platform composed of a multi-sided market where each side of the market derives value in a symbiotic cycle with the others. [EDIT added link] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_circle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_cir... The "virtuous platform cycle" that most people use as the prototypical example is the Windows ecosystem. The market sides were: Windows, Intel, OEMs (e.g. Compaq, DELL), IHVs (e.g. ATI, HP printers), ISVs (e.g. Lotus, Adobe, Office), retailers & channel (e.g. Egghead), and of course, end users. All of these "market sides" drew great value from one another as part of the Windows ecosystem. They all made money, hand-over-foot, because the "virtious platform cycle" snowballed. There are many examples of other platforms with a virtuous cycle today. Google's search engine, Apple's iOS, and on a smaller scale something like Minecraft (although that's a nascent example). For each example YOU come up with, ask this question: What came first, "end user value" or "developer/3rd party platform"? In my case, I struggle to find examples where the platform STARTED as something that was focused on developer/3rd party value. You might argue Java, but then I'd say "in what way did the creator of that platform make any money off the platform?". Discuss. :-)
andrewtbham 15y ago
This guy appears to be frustrated because he is using the term platform in a very narrow sense. By his definition it requires a "developer ecosystem." Whereas the people he hears use the term are referring more correctly to a two sided market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-sided_market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-sided_market
jmitcheson 15y ago
"or perhaps your a dev tools business" Your / you're error in published article.. ugh
edanm 15y ago
The argument about Amazon is wrong - it may account for 3% now, but it's still a work in progress, a growing business. Much as the e-commerce business was unprofitable for most of the early life of Amazon, because it was still growing.

38 points by gregpilling 15y ago

How is Amazon not a platform? Completely leaving aside AWS (which the author does mention): a. it has zillions of stores selling through it b. a whole generation of small businesses have been built by people selling used books, cds and dvds. c. anyone can publish their own books, cds and dvds d. anyone can use their fulfillment services and payment services e. digital video and music f. kindle

maaku 15y ago
The author lost all credibility at that point.
davedx 15y ago
It's an (albeit extremely large and diverse) e-commerce website, not a platform. What software do you build that runs on top of Amazon?
- lukeschlather 15y ago
  You don't build software, you build businesses. I don't know what percentage of the merchandise available on Amazon is available from 3rd party retailers through the marketplace, but there is a lot.
  - davedx 15y ago
    That's the point! A platform (at least in IT) is software (usually a stack of software) that you build other software to run on.
- byoung2 15y ago
  It's an (albeit extremely large and diverse) e-commerce website, not a platform. What software do you build that runs on top of Amazon? Ignoring AWS, there are lots of complex systems you can build on top of Amazon. One example is Fulfillment by Amazon. You can integrate this service with your ecommerce website, and Amazon can warehouse your inventory in its facilities nationwide, charging you based on the volume of your inventory. They will automatically select a warehouse closest to your clients that has your item in stock and pack and ship it, and even order more inventory from your supplier when a certain warehouse inventory level falls below a certain threshold. It is basically S3 backed CloudFront for physical goods.
  - ja2ke 15y ago
    Fulfillment seems like a service. You don't build a business on someone else's warehouse, you use their warehouse to support your business. Unless someone's writing a "Fulfillment by Amazon Client" and selling it, I guess.
    - byoung2 15y ago
      You don't build a business on someone else's warehouse From the article: A software platform is truly a foundation on which entire businesses can be built. It encompasses not just a technical infrastructure but also a user experience framework, usually some form of a selling channel, and a defined large-scale developer ecosystem If that isn't the very definition of Amazon, I don't know what is. In theory I could build an entire business on top of Amazon's infrastructure (and not just a software business). I could have outsourced labor write or edit content using Mechanical Turk. I could publish it using Amazon's self-publishing tools. I could sell it through Amazon's marketplace or on an ecommerce site hosted on AWS. I could collect payments using Amazon FPS. I can ship products using Fulfillment by Amazon. You most certainly can build a business using someone else's warehouse, just as Heroku and RightScale can build businesses on someone else's datacenter. Fulfillment is a service, but is is a PaaS - a robust logistics platform as a service.
      - ja2ke 15y ago
        I read the article. This thread started with "S3/AWS aside." I think "Amazon" isn't a platform because it's not a single thing ("Facebook"), but Amazon offers a number of services which can be used in concert. Maybe those are actually the same in practice, but they exist in different spaces in my brain.
  - davedx 15y ago
    It's certainly an involved and interesting service they're providing there, but it's still not a platform. You aren't writing software that runs on top of their software, you're connecting to their software with your own software. Those are two different things. Windows is a platform. Heroku is a platform. Facebook is a platform (barely). Android is a platform. These are things you write software for that sits on top of their existing stack. Something providing webservices, no matter how many there are or how much business they generate, is not a platform.
cwp 15y ago
Not only that, but the author dismisses AWS because it's expensive and brings in a small portion of Amazon's revenue. By that standard neither Android nor Xbox are platforms.

jcc80 15y ago

"At least for me, pitching a business as a platform when it really isn't tends to degrade what might be a really interesting vision and story in and of itself." I suppose, but that's a pretty small downside. For others pitching yourself as a platform can lead to more buzz, more possibilities and of course...maybe a higher valuation. And, fact is you can't know where things are going so you might as well build & position yourself as a platform if it makes sense.

hack_edu 15y ago
So, vigorously insist it's a duck even if it can't quack. Sleaze is the fastest route to funding? I'm all too reminded of Saturday's NYT article[1] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/technology/silicon-valley-booms-but-worries-about-a-new-bust.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/technology/silicon-valley-...
- davedx 15y ago
  Marketing 101 ;)
- jcc80 15y ago
  "vigorously insist" & "sleaze"? Someone may have a case of the Monday's...:) Maybe you read something into it that wasn't written (you'll notice I ended w/ "if it makes sense.") Anyways, point was you don't know where you'll end up so think big and go for it.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - hack_edu 15y ago
    I will concede my Mondays half-caffeinated status at the point of writing. My tone was a bit strong but I stand by my commentary. :)

freddealmeida 15y ago

The use of platform, in the creative agency space is somewhat different. A platform doesn't need to have an eco-system if it creates value for the consumer and develops a community around that value. In this sense Nike+ is a platform. Twitter is too. The idea that a startup is only a platform if one can build on top of it, may be taking the idea too far.

cek 15y ago

What you are building is either an app or a platform. If you try to make it both you will fail. And there are very few (if any) examples of successful platforms that started as a platform.

cek 15y ago
Surprised this got down voted. Maybe I should explain further. Point 1: If a startup tries to be both an "app" and a "platform" it will fail. In my experience, when building a new product, teams need to make a choice very early on whether they are building something that is all about end-user value/experience ("an app") or all about 3rd party value ("a platform"). Groups that attempt to do both lack focus. They don't do a great job building a great user experience and they don't do a great job building the platform because these two things are in tension. Example: enabling a 3rd party plug-in model requires the creation of UI that is often complex from a user's perspective. The investment in that UI to make it great (especially at an early stage when you don't really know what or how many 3rd party extensions will get built) could be better spent on building end-user-valuable functionality in the core of the product. This point is all about focus. To be successful startups need extreme focus. Point 2: There are very few (if any) examples of successful platforms that started as a pure platform. Name a few successful "platforms". Before you do, for the sake of argument, agree with me that "successful platform" implies the platform has a vibrant set of independent partners who both contribute to and "profit" from the platform. I could also use the term "virtuous platfrom" which has come to mean a platform composed of a multi-sided market where each side of the market derives value in a symbiotic cycle with the others. [EDIT added link] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_circle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_cir... The "virtuous platform cycle" that most people use as the prototypical example is the Windows ecosystem. The market sides were: Windows, Intel, OEMs (e.g. Compaq, DELL), IHVs (e.g. ATI, HP printers), ISVs (e.g. Lotus, Adobe, Office), retailers & channel (e.g. Egghead), and of course, end users. All of these "market sides" drew great value from one another as part of the Windows ecosystem. They all made money, hand-over-foot, because the "virtious platform cycle" snowballed. There are many examples of other platforms with a virtuous cycle today. Google's search engine, Apple's iOS, and on a smaller scale something like Minecraft (although that's a nascent example). For each example YOU come up with, ask this question: What came first, "end user value" or "developer/3rd party platform"? In my case, I struggle to find examples where the platform STARTED as something that was focused on developer/3rd party value. You might argue Java, but then I'd say "in what way did the creator of that platform make any money off the platform?". Discuss. :-)

andrewtbham 15y ago

This guy appears to be frustrated because he is using the term platform in a very narrow sense. By his definition it requires a "developer ecosystem." Whereas the people he hears use the term are referring more correctly to a two sided market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-sided_market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-sided_market

jmitcheson 15y ago

"or perhaps your a dev tools business" Your / you're error in published article.. ugh

edanm 15y ago

The argument about Amazon is wrong - it may account for 3% now, but it's still a work in progress, a growing business. Much as the e-commerce business was unprofitable for most of the early life of Amazon, because it was still growing.