5 ms·

I can accept that, thanks for sharing! I agree, things like XFCE and MATE need quite a bit of mucking around to actually look "normal". I also quite like IceWM

I can accept that, thanks for sharing! I agree, things like XFCE and MATE need quite a bit of mucking around to actually look "normal". I also quite like IceWM on Antix for this kind of experience.

JasonFruit 5y ago
I agree on IceWM; it was not hard to make it give that feeling of, "Oh, so it's just a normal computer, then." JWM was another of the super-light window managers that could do that pretty well with the right setup.
pantalaimon 5y ago
> XFCE and MATE need quite a bit of mucking around to actually look "normal" That's an odd statement. Sure XFCE may not be as polished or consistent, but most distros will ship a pretty consistent desktop. Mate on the other hand received plenty of UX work from Red Hat and Canonical back when it was still Gnome 2 and you still have all the themes and styles from that era, to me it doesn't get more 'normal' than that. (OK, they changed the accent color to green and there is apparently no easy way to change that, but I'd say that's the only step back in that regard.)
- qalmakka 5y ago
  I am 100% convinced that GNOME 2 was one of the greatest UIs of all time. Its UX was incredibly simple yet beautiful, and GNOME 3 and 4 instead feel gimmicky and disconnected from reality when compared to it. Mate really deserves more love nowadays.
  - grumpyprole 5y ago
    My theory is that GNOME (basically RedHat) were concerned about software patents. I cannot think of any other reason why they would make it so different to the mainstream and thus less intuitive for most. IMHO it is not an improvement. Luckily Ubuntu have made it slightly more normal.
    - toast0 5y ago
      Around the time of GNOME 3, everybody was doing big changes to their desktop experience. There must have been something in the air that said let's screw up desktops. This was when Windows 8 was putting tiles everywhere (but you know, not actually everywhere) and OS X was ruining things in a more subtle way I can't remember.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      Everyone involved has talked extensively over the years about what they think about the desktop UI experience there is no need to add complexity.
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  I guess by normal I just mean what my family members might be used to coming from Windows. XFCE is much better in that regard but the GNOME2 workflow that MATE seems to stick to is not quite easy to pick up from them, so it involves either configuring panels myself or getting a hold of the MATE Tweak tool to change the layout to Redmond or whatever.
bacchusracine 5y ago
Have you looked at Ubuntu-Mate? Its 21.10 release has the makings of the best one in years. I'll concede that it has taken a bit of time for development to start coming together but now there seems to be a momentum and I've yet to see a version of the desktop that looks better. I wish more people would look at this version of Mate, with its best foot forward rather than some of these basic ones with absolutely no polish applied.
- unmole 5y ago
  I've been using Ubuntu Mate since the day it came out and I am on 21.10. But I can't put my finger on anything that points to increased development momentum. Could you point me to what I'm missing?
raffraffraff 5y ago
I think XFCE is one of the most "normal" desktop you can get, but I suppose that depends on that is considered normal nowadays. It has a bar with a menu, a list of open windows, and notification/status section. It has a desktop where you can place folders, files and shortcuts. It's context menus make sense. It's not perfect but with a few simple tweaks (most of which are scriptable via xfconf-query) they can be fixed. Instead of trying to maintain a desktop across my machines, or over rebuilds, I just run my script and I'm done. The biggest gripe I have with it is the file choose/save dialog. It's default focus isn't the filename field (like WTF). Let's say you're going to save a file. When the dialog opens and you start to type, it starts to filter files in the current directory. It's totally f*ucking stupid, extremely annoying after the second time you encounter it, and not easy to change in the settings. You need to get under the hood.

I can accept that, thanks for sharing! I agree, things like XFCE and MATE need quite a bit of mucking around to actually look "normal". I also quite like IceWM on Antix for this kind of experience.

JasonFruit 5y ago

I agree on IceWM; it was not hard to make it give that feeling of, "Oh, so it's just a normal computer, then." JWM was another of the super-light window managers that could do that pretty well with the right setup.

pantalaimon 5y ago

> XFCE and MATE need quite a bit of mucking around to actually look "normal" That's an odd statement. Sure XFCE may not be as polished or consistent, but most distros will ship a pretty consistent desktop. Mate on the other hand received plenty of UX work from Red Hat and Canonical back when it was still Gnome 2 and you still have all the themes and styles from that era, to me it doesn't get more 'normal' than that. (OK, they changed the accent color to green and there is apparently no easy way to change that, but I'd say that's the only step back in that regard.)

qalmakka 5y ago
I am 100% convinced that GNOME 2 was one of the greatest UIs of all time. Its UX was incredibly simple yet beautiful, and GNOME 3 and 4 instead feel gimmicky and disconnected from reality when compared to it. Mate really deserves more love nowadays.
- grumpyprole 5y ago
  My theory is that GNOME (basically RedHat) were concerned about software patents. I cannot think of any other reason why they would make it so different to the mainstream and thus less intuitive for most. IMHO it is not an improvement. Luckily Ubuntu have made it slightly more normal.
  - toast0 5y ago
    Around the time of GNOME 3, everybody was doing big changes to their desktop experience. There must have been something in the air that said let's screw up desktops. This was when Windows 8 was putting tiles everywhere (but you know, not actually everywhere) and OS X was ruining things in a more subtle way I can't remember.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    Everyone involved has talked extensively over the years about what they think about the desktop UI experience there is no need to add complexity.
approxim8ion 5y ago
I guess by normal I just mean what my family members might be used to coming from Windows. XFCE is much better in that regard but the GNOME2 workflow that MATE seems to stick to is not quite easy to pick up from them, so it involves either configuring panels myself or getting a hold of the MATE Tweak tool to change the layout to Redmond or whatever.

bacchusracine 5y ago

Have you looked at Ubuntu-Mate? Its 21.10 release has the makings of the best one in years. I'll concede that it has taken a bit of time for development to start coming together but now there seems to be a momentum and I've yet to see a version of the desktop that looks better. I wish more people would look at this version of Mate, with its best foot forward rather than some of these basic ones with absolutely no polish applied.

unmole 5y ago
I've been using Ubuntu Mate since the day it came out and I am on 21.10. But I can't put my finger on anything that points to increased development momentum. Could you point me to what I'm missing?

raffraffraff 5y ago

I think XFCE is one of the most "normal" desktop you can get, but I suppose that depends on that is considered normal nowadays. It has a bar with a menu, a list of open windows, and notification/status section. It has a desktop where you can place folders, files and shortcuts. It's context menus make sense. It's not perfect but with a few simple tweaks (most of which are scriptable via xfconf-query) they can be fixed. Instead of trying to maintain a desktop across my machines, or over rebuilds, I just run my script and I'm done. The biggest gripe I have with it is the file choose/save dialog. It's default focus isn't the filename field (like WTF). Let's say you're going to save a file. When the dialog opens and you start to type, it starts to filter files in the current directory. It's totally f*ucking stupid, extremely annoying after the second time you encounter it, and not easy to change in the settings. You need to get under the hood.