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> If I buy toe fungus cream at your store you absolutely may not tell other shopkeepers about that Why exactly? Which laws would I be violating if I did?

Nextgrid 5y ago
Well now you'd be violating the GDPR. Before we didn't have these laws because this wasn't a problem in practice - nobody was calling other businesses at scale to tell them who was buying fungus cream. If they were, we would've had a law equivalent to the GDPR to prevent that. Actually, there was one incident in the US where a politician's video rental history was disclosed against his wishes and as a result a law was drafted to prevent this practice in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act
leephillips 5y ago
The laws of decency, respected by all decent people. Sure, keep a ledger of what I buy from you. But do not tell anyone else anything about me. I respect this principle in non-commercial life, and so do my friends. You are not exempt from the rules governing decency just because you sell things.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  But on the other hand, if you had an interaction with the shopkeeper then wouldn't the same laws of decency prevent you from telling others about that encounter?
  - leephillips 5y ago
    It depends what I tell. If the shopkeeper tells me that he recommends a particular brand of toe fungus cream because it works for him, I will never reveal his condition to others. But I might mention his hours of operation, or that he runs a good store, because that’s public information.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    There are plenty of deals that you make with vendors/merchants that are given in confidence; a merchant may give you 50% off if you promise not to spread it around. Other than those occasions, "shopkeepers" not only want you to spread around that you shopped there, they actually depend on it and will often pay you to do it. As a customer, I have no interest in you advertising for me, so it's not comparable. Any information that you spread around about me is likely to give other "shopkeepers" greater leverage over me (which is why vendors don't do this in the real world unless they have some sort of financial relationship with each other.)
- thegrimmest 5y ago
  I agree, but it has always been tyrannical to legislate decency. What next, fines for not saying "please" and "thank you"?
  - leephillips 5y ago
    There’s s difference between being impolite and being indecent. We have peeping-Tom laws because it's beyond impolite to press your face against someone’s window and peer through the gap in her drapes. Are such laws tyranny? Most think not, because they are there to protect potential victims.
    - thegrimmest 5y ago
      If someone can stand on public property and press their face against your window, they should have the perfect right to do so, for as long as they see fit.
      - leephillips 5y ago
        So you think that the nearly ubiquitous peeping-Tom laws are unjust? You see no purpose to them?
        thegrimmest 5y ago
        Yes? Draw your curtains before you change? Anything you can see from a public space you have the right to stare at? Our government shouldn't be in the business of policing modesty or decency. Only administering the basic peace.
        leephillips 5y ago
        When I first became aware of these laws I thought as you do. But after a while I came to think the laws are OK, maybe even necessary. You say “draw your curtains”, but in my example the curtains are already drawn. Unless you seal them with duct tape, there are almost always tiny holes or gaps through which someone can see, if they're allowed to do things, like pressing their face against the window, that have no legitimate purpose aside from the intention to invade someone’s privacy. Our laws routinely consider the intention and purpose behind the act.
verve_rat 5y ago
Depending on your jurisdiction, privacy laws designed to prevent exactly what you are doing.
xxs 5y ago
GDPR immediately, unless you have a consent from John to share his personal details. GDPR does not pertain to digital format solely.

Nextgrid 5y ago

Well now you'd be violating the GDPR. Before we didn't have these laws because this wasn't a problem in practice - nobody was calling other businesses at scale to tell them who was buying fungus cream. If they were, we would've had a law equivalent to the GDPR to prevent that. Actually, there was one incident in the US where a politician's video rental history was disclosed against his wishes and as a result a law was drafted to prevent this practice in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act

leephillips 5y ago

The laws of decency, respected by all decent people. Sure, keep a ledger of what I buy from you. But do not tell anyone else anything about me. I respect this principle in non-commercial life, and so do my friends. You are not exempt from the rules governing decency just because you sell things.

Aerroon 5y ago
But on the other hand, if you had an interaction with the shopkeeper then wouldn't the same laws of decency prevent you from telling others about that encounter?
- leephillips 5y ago
  It depends what I tell. If the shopkeeper tells me that he recommends a particular brand of toe fungus cream because it works for him, I will never reveal his condition to others. But I might mention his hours of operation, or that he runs a good store, because that’s public information.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  There are plenty of deals that you make with vendors/merchants that are given in confidence; a merchant may give you 50% off if you promise not to spread it around. Other than those occasions, "shopkeepers" not only want you to spread around that you shopped there, they actually depend on it and will often pay you to do it. As a customer, I have no interest in you advertising for me, so it's not comparable. Any information that you spread around about me is likely to give other "shopkeepers" greater leverage over me (which is why vendors don't do this in the real world unless they have some sort of financial relationship with each other.)
thegrimmest 5y ago
I agree, but it has always been tyrannical to legislate decency. What next, fines for not saying "please" and "thank you"?
- leephillips 5y ago
  There’s s difference between being impolite and being indecent. We have peeping-Tom laws because it's beyond impolite to press your face against someone’s window and peer through the gap in her drapes. Are such laws tyranny? Most think not, because they are there to protect potential victims.
  - thegrimmest 5y ago
    If someone can stand on public property and press their face against your window, they should have the perfect right to do so, for as long as they see fit.
    - leephillips 5y ago
      So you think that the nearly ubiquitous peeping-Tom laws are unjust? You see no purpose to them?
      - thegrimmest 5y ago
        Yes? Draw your curtains before you change? Anything you can see from a public space you have the right to stare at? Our government shouldn't be in the business of policing modesty or decency. Only administering the basic peace.
        leephillips 5y ago
        When I first became aware of these laws I thought as you do. But after a while I came to think the laws are OK, maybe even necessary. You say “draw your curtains”, but in my example the curtains are already drawn. Unless you seal them with duct tape, there are almost always tiny holes or gaps through which someone can see, if they're allowed to do things, like pressing their face against the window, that have no legitimate purpose aside from the intention to invade someone’s privacy. Our laws routinely consider the intention and purpose behind the act.

verve_rat 5y ago

Depending on your jurisdiction, privacy laws designed to prevent exactly what you are doing.

xxs 5y ago

GDPR immediately, unless you have a consent from John to share his personal details. GDPR does not pertain to digital format solely.