4 ms·

As a buyer of software, it's not that Apple 'owns' the relationship, it's that Apple protects me from unscrupulous sellers. Take NYT subscriptions as an example

As a buyer of software, it's not that Apple 'owns' the relationship, it's that Apple protects me from unscrupulous sellers. Take NYT subscriptions as an example: prior to the app store it was notoriously difficult to cancel. That's a common dark pattern that Apple wiped out, and as a user I appreciate some adult supervision over those types of practices. If developers don't like it they can make their sideloading Android app and see how that works out for them.

horsawlarway 5y ago
As a maker of software - I have no problem with Apple providing that type of protection as an opt-in value add for their users. I do mind (quite a fucking bit) when - I don't do the abusive shit and Apple still keeps all my customers - I'm forced to give 30% of my operating revenue to apple for this "favor" - Apple is not neutral: they will happily monitor items that sell well on their store, release a shoddy half-baked internal version, bump it right to the top of the store, and eat all my revenue. ---- The first two I could maybe stomach - The third is entirely bullshit, particularly in combination with the first two. It's ok though, We're watching Apple lose this fight (correctly, IMO) in every jurisdiction that's not the US.
- grishka 5y ago
  Also: different countries have different cultures. Not every country shares the Silicon Valley prudishness. Not every country shares the overwhelming respect for copyright either. Yet, Apple not only reviews apps on technical merits, they also review the service itself, if your app is for a service. If the service allows something Apple doesn't like (for example NSFW content, or pirated music), Apple will reject your perfectly fine app and force you to change your terms of service if you want any iOS presence at all. That's absolutely bonkers. I'm Russian. We're fine with porn on the internet and we pirate everything. The company I worked at had these problems incessantly. They once rejected our app saying, I'm not kidding, "we opened the video section, typed 'porn' into the search field, and naked people came up, this is not allowed under App Store Review Guidelines™". You typed "porn" into search. What did you expect, Karen? Cat videos?
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Yeah, it sucks. Why must they force their prudishness on the whole world? Such a pain. They force copyright as well via US government and its trade agreements. It's like they won't rest until the entire world becomes America.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  > Apple is not neutral: they will happily monitor items that sell well on their store, release a shoddy half-baked internal version, bump it right to the top of the store, and eat all my revenue. http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost-the-api-war/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... > If you want to write desktop software now you do it on Microsoft’s terms, calling their APIs and working around their buggy OS. > And if you manage to write something that takes off, you may find that you were merely doing market research for Microsoft. History repeats.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
It's great that Apple is using their power for good. Doesn't change the fact they have power over you. They decide what software you're allowed to run. You have no freedom.
- mullingitover 5y ago
  > They decide what software you're allowed to run On the device I happily bought from them, knowing how they operate. There are tons of other high quality devices of the same variety that I can buy and use to run whatever I want. I don't see the problem with this arrangement, nobody is deceived about how this works when they decide to buy Apple's devices, yet they stubbornly insist on buying them.
  - grishka 5y ago
    How many people who aren't software developers are aware of the iOS app publishing process?
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    > knowing how they operate You know how they operate now. It's entirely possible for them to change strategies and start oppressing you out of the blue.
    - mullingitover 5y ago
      Lots of things are 'entirely possible,' it's also entirely possible that Apple decide that sideloading is totally fine. It's entirely possible Google will ban sideloading. What's plausible is that the device you purchased will operate in roughly the same way over the lifetime of the device.

horsawlarway 5y ago

As a maker of software - I have no problem with Apple providing that type of protection as an opt-in value add for their users. I do mind (quite a fucking bit) when - I don't do the abusive shit and Apple still keeps all my customers - I'm forced to give 30% of my operating revenue to apple for this "favor" - Apple is not neutral: they will happily monitor items that sell well on their store, release a shoddy half-baked internal version, bump it right to the top of the store, and eat all my revenue. ---- The first two I could maybe stomach - The third is entirely bullshit, particularly in combination with the first two. It's ok though, We're watching Apple lose this fight (correctly, IMO) in every jurisdiction that's not the US.

grishka 5y ago
Also: different countries have different cultures. Not every country shares the Silicon Valley prudishness. Not every country shares the overwhelming respect for copyright either. Yet, Apple not only reviews apps on technical merits, they also review the service itself, if your app is for a service. If the service allows something Apple doesn't like (for example NSFW content, or pirated music), Apple will reject your perfectly fine app and force you to change your terms of service if you want any iOS presence at all. That's absolutely bonkers. I'm Russian. We're fine with porn on the internet and we pirate everything. The company I worked at had these problems incessantly. They once rejected our app saying, I'm not kidding, "we opened the video section, typed 'porn' into the search field, and naked people came up, this is not allowed under App Store Review Guidelines™". You typed "porn" into search. What did you expect, Karen? Cat videos?
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Yeah, it sucks. Why must they force their prudishness on the whole world? Such a pain. They force copyright as well via US government and its trade agreements. It's like they won't rest until the entire world becomes America.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> Apple is not neutral: they will happily monitor items that sell well on their store, release a shoddy half-baked internal version, bump it right to the top of the store, and eat all my revenue. http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost-the-api-war/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... > If you want to write desktop software now you do it on Microsoft’s terms, calling their APIs and working around their buggy OS. > And if you manage to write something that takes off, you may find that you were merely doing market research for Microsoft. History repeats.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

It's great that Apple is using their power for good. Doesn't change the fact they have power over you. They decide what software you're allowed to run. You have no freedom.

mullingitover 5y ago
> They decide what software you're allowed to run On the device I happily bought from them, knowing how they operate. There are tons of other high quality devices of the same variety that I can buy and use to run whatever I want. I don't see the problem with this arrangement, nobody is deceived about how this works when they decide to buy Apple's devices, yet they stubbornly insist on buying them.
- grishka 5y ago
  How many people who aren't software developers are aware of the iOS app publishing process?
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  > knowing how they operate You know how they operate now. It's entirely possible for them to change strategies and start oppressing you out of the blue.
  - mullingitover 5y ago
    Lots of things are 'entirely possible,' it's also entirely possible that Apple decide that sideloading is totally fine. It's entirely possible Google will ban sideloading. What's plausible is that the device you purchased will operate in roughly the same way over the lifetime of the device.