4 ms·

Before everyone becomes super excited, I want you all to read this article from Nov 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375

Before everyone becomes super excited, I want you all to read this article from Nov 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 Read it carefully. Pfizer falsifies clinical data and covers up significant adverse effects. FDA knows about all of that and covers their asses. Whatever comes from Pfizer will be authorized without any questions being asked. It's not even a legislation, but a straight up internal arrangements between FDA and Pfizer executives. Whatever you see in media about Pfizer is a complete crap. I also want to remind you that Pfizer is responsible for the largest health care fraud in history. They had to pay $2.3B fine in 2009.

ceejayoz 5y ago
One of Pfizer's trial vendors falsified information. https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/fact-check-report-questioning-pfizer-trial-shouldnt-undermine-confidence-in-vaccines/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/fact-check-re... > The Pfizer Phase III trial involved 44,000 people and 153 locations. From August 2020 through Sept. 17, 2020 — when she was fired — Jackson told CBS 17 that Ventavia accounted for at least 1,200 of those people and accounted for three sites. The author of the BMJ piece is quoted as saying “people are going to use this to push a political position because that’s what they’re interested in”, so congrats on demonstrating that.
- throwawaymedia 5y ago
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    If you open up the actual VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html), you'll see disclaimers like this: > Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information. > The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines. The numbers are suddenly high, in part, because of this: https://vaers.hhs.gov/faq.html https://vaers.hhs.gov/faq.html > Healthcare providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination [under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)], and other adverse events if later revised by CDC... There's a COVID-specific reporting requirement on a previously optional system.
    - grey413 5y ago
      Agreed. The reports that VAERS provides can hint at rare adverse outcomes for vaccines, but it simply doesn't hold any significance compared to clinical trials. Comparing them is just outright false equivalence.
  - ADSSDA 5y ago
    VAERS is a great thing, but it's deeply unfortunate that antivax conspiracy theorists have used it to spread lies like yours. https://www.science.org/content/article/antivaccine-activists-use-government-database-side-effects-scare-public https://www.science.org/content/article/antivaccine-activist...
    - throwawaymedia 5y ago
      There is no conspiracy theory here. Stop using that term to minimize the importance of things. VAERS is a data point. Check out similar data points from other countries. Numbers DO match.
      - ADSSDA 5y ago
        What other data points? Can you provide peer reviewed high quality data to support your claims? Just because you want a conspiracy theory to be true does not make it so.
        throwawaymedia 5y ago
        Can _you_ provide any other legitimate data point that tracks adverse vaccine reactions? Most likely not. Because the narrative is such that if there is anything negative comes out, people are immediately being canceled or fired.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - grey413 5y ago
    VAERS hasn't turned up anything like you're implying about the Pfizer vaccine.
  - mpweiher 5y ago
    Please don't misrepresent VAERS. "Due to the program's open and accessible design and its allowance of unverified reports, incomplete VAERS data is often used in false claims regarding vaccine safety." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reportin... VAERS is an unvetted database of adverse events that occur some time after a vaccine has been given. It does not mean that there is a causal link. "CDC cautions that it is generally not possible to find out from VAERS data if a vaccine caused the adverse event, or how common the event might be.[5]" Particularly, in the current pandemic, we vaccinated a LOT of sick and elderly patients, and we vaccinated them first, in almost unprecedented numbers. So VAERS will have a LOT of "adverse events", simply because the sick and elderly have a lot of these adverse events, vaccine or not.
- salemh 5y ago
  Why do you trust this company? https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ 1986: Pfizer had to withdraw an artificial heart valve from the market after defects led to it being implicated in over 300 deaths. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) withdrew its approval for the product in 1986 and Pfizer agreed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation after multiple lawsuits were brought against it. 2003: Pfizer has long been condemned for profiteering from AIDS drugs. In 2003 for example, it walked away from a licencing deal for its Rescriptor drug that would have made it cheaper for poorer countries. 2011: Pfizer was forced to pay compensation to families of children killed in the controversial Trovan drug trial. During the worst meningitis epidemic seen in Africa, in 1996, Pfizer ran a trial in Nigeria their new drug Trovan. Five of the 100 children who took Trovan died and it caused liver damage, while it caused lifelong disabilities in those who survived. But another group of 100 children were given the conventional “gold standard” meningitis antibiotic as a “control” group for comparison. Six of them also tragically died because, the families said, Pfizer had given them less than the recommended level of the conventional antibiotic in order to make Trovan look more effective. 2012: Pfizer had to pay around $1billion to settle lawsuits claiming its Prempro drug caused breast cancer. Prempro was used in hormone replacement therapy, usually for women going through the menopause. The settlements came after six years of trials and hardship for the women affected. 2013: Pfizer paid out $273 million to settle over 2,000 cases in the US that accused its smoking treatment drug Chantix of provoking suicidal and homicidal thoughts, self harm and severe psychological disorders. Pfizer was also accused of improperly excluding patients with a history of depression or other mental disturbances from trials for the drug. Later, in 2017, a coroner in Australia ruled that the drug had contributed to a man’s suicide. The man’s mother campaigned to change the label on the drug. 2020: Pfizer reached an agreement with thousands of customers of its depo-testosterone drug in 2018 after they sued it for increasing the likelihood of numerous issues, including heart attacks.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > Why do you trust this company? The great news is that I don't have to. The vaccines are being widely administered by dozens of countries, each with their own regulatory authorities, and the whole process is generating enormous amounts of data, including ones outside Pfizer's control/influence.
- djanogo 5y ago
  Your take is completely wrong, OP didn't make it "political", he said Pfizer falsified data and your post confirms that.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > he said Pfizer falsified data Which is an assertion the BMJ article doesn't support. "Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports" "A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial."
    - throwawaymedia 5y ago
      > Ventavia executive identified three site staff members with whom to “Go over e-diary issue/falsifying data, etc.” One of them was “verbally counseled for changing data and not noting late entry,” a note indicates. > At several points during the late September meeting Jackson and the Ventavia executives discussed the possibility of the FDA showing up for an inspection (box 1). “We’re going to get some kind of letter of information at least, when the FDA gets here... know it,” an executive stated.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > Ventavia > Ventavia You're aware that Pfizer isn't spelled V-E-N-T-A-V-I-A, yes?
- jtbayly 5y ago
  Wait a minute. I don’t see any political position in the comment you’re replying to. I don’t even see a hint of one. I can’t even figure out what political position on what topic would be likely.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    The author was obviously aware of the possibility that "one of Pfizer's vendors did a bad thing" would likely be turned into "Pfizer bad/scary!" (with the implication that doubt should be cast on the vaccines/meds) as it is here.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Trial vendor.. LOL. Reminds me of a politician getting caught doing something. It wasn't my fault, it was the fault of the person I paid to do it.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    If a politician hired a hundred vendors to send direct mailings, and one of them used forged stamps, would it be fair to say the politician used forged stamps?
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      This is more like.. what if you're a food manufacturer and find out the food was contaminated. Do you keep shipping it to recoup costs and stay quiet, or do you come clean and risk the negative PR?
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        The vaccine wasn't contaminated, though. The worst case scenario here is ~1,200 out of 44,000 trial participants in three out of 153 trial sites may have had bad data. I would hope that Pfizer and the FDA are double-checking the data from that vendor (and I strongly suspect that one vendor with aberrant data versus the rest of them is already something they keep an eye out for). We've subsequently given (and monitored for the same sort of issues we look for in these trials) hundreds of millions of doses of the vaccine successfully.
IronWolve 5y ago
Related, FDA's War on Dr. Burzynski, after Burzynski won his court cases, the FDA gave away Burzynski patents to their FDA pharma buddies. The FDA stole it after they couldn't win lawsuits against Burzynski in multiple court cases. Found a recap via google @ https://www.jpands.org/hacienda/blevins1.html https://www.jpands.org/hacienda/blevins1.html Burzynski: Cancer Is Serious Business @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7LZ8GLerI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7LZ8GLerI
mataug 5y ago
I understand this concern, but what can I as an average citizen do about this ? - Should we choose the moderna vaccine instead ? - Should we avoid the oral vaccine, and opt for the injection instead ? - Should we merely be skeptical and wait ?
- warning26 5y ago
  My advice would be to avoid conspiracy theories on the internet and just live your life.
- throwawaymedia 5y ago
  I'm skeptical and I wait. I'll be the last one in line to take the shot. I'm a software engineer and I know that if you deploy a system to production RIGHT AWAY, something is gonna fail.
  - crottypeter 5y ago
    But the virus is already in the live prod environment!
  - mataug 5y ago
    Wait before taking the oral vaccine ? Or wait before taking the existing FDA approved Pfizer vaccine ? And why not take the J&J or Moderna vaccine if Pfizer is the only concern here ?
JKolios 5y ago
> covers up significant adverse effects. I can't find that in the article you linked, can you cite the relevant parts of the text?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

ceejayoz 5y ago

One of Pfizer's trial vendors falsified information. https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/fact-check-report-questioning-pfizer-trial-shouldnt-undermine-confidence-in-vaccines/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/fact-check-re... > The Pfizer Phase III trial involved 44,000 people and 153 locations. From August 2020 through Sept. 17, 2020 — when she was fired — Jackson told CBS 17 that Ventavia accounted for at least 1,200 of those people and accounted for three sites. The author of the BMJ piece is quoted as saying “people are going to use this to push a political position because that’s what they’re interested in”, so congrats on demonstrating that.

throwawaymedia 5y ago
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  If you open up the actual VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html), you'll see disclaimers like this: > Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information. > The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines. The numbers are suddenly high, in part, because of this: https://vaers.hhs.gov/faq.html https://vaers.hhs.gov/faq.html > Healthcare providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination [under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)], and other adverse events if later revised by CDC... There's a COVID-specific reporting requirement on a previously optional system.
  - grey413 5y ago
    Agreed. The reports that VAERS provides can hint at rare adverse outcomes for vaccines, but it simply doesn't hold any significance compared to clinical trials. Comparing them is just outright false equivalence.
- ADSSDA 5y ago
  VAERS is a great thing, but it's deeply unfortunate that antivax conspiracy theorists have used it to spread lies like yours. https://www.science.org/content/article/antivaccine-activists-use-government-database-side-effects-scare-public https://www.science.org/content/article/antivaccine-activist...
  - throwawaymedia 5y ago
    There is no conspiracy theory here. Stop using that term to minimize the importance of things. VAERS is a data point. Check out similar data points from other countries. Numbers DO match.
    - ADSSDA 5y ago
      What other data points? Can you provide peer reviewed high quality data to support your claims? Just because you want a conspiracy theory to be true does not make it so.
      - throwawaymedia 5y ago
        Can _you_ provide any other legitimate data point that tracks adverse vaccine reactions? Most likely not. Because the narrative is such that if there is anything negative comes out, people are immediately being canceled or fired.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- grey413 5y ago
  VAERS hasn't turned up anything like you're implying about the Pfizer vaccine.
- mpweiher 5y ago
  Please don't misrepresent VAERS. "Due to the program's open and accessible design and its allowance of unverified reports, incomplete VAERS data is often used in false claims regarding vaccine safety." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reportin... VAERS is an unvetted database of adverse events that occur some time after a vaccine has been given. It does not mean that there is a causal link. "CDC cautions that it is generally not possible to find out from VAERS data if a vaccine caused the adverse event, or how common the event might be.[5]" Particularly, in the current pandemic, we vaccinated a LOT of sick and elderly patients, and we vaccinated them first, in almost unprecedented numbers. So VAERS will have a LOT of "adverse events", simply because the sick and elderly have a lot of these adverse events, vaccine or not.
salemh 5y ago
Why do you trust this company? https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ 1986: Pfizer had to withdraw an artificial heart valve from the market after defects led to it being implicated in over 300 deaths. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) withdrew its approval for the product in 1986 and Pfizer agreed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation after multiple lawsuits were brought against it. 2003: Pfizer has long been condemned for profiteering from AIDS drugs. In 2003 for example, it walked away from a licencing deal for its Rescriptor drug that would have made it cheaper for poorer countries. 2011: Pfizer was forced to pay compensation to families of children killed in the controversial Trovan drug trial. During the worst meningitis epidemic seen in Africa, in 1996, Pfizer ran a trial in Nigeria their new drug Trovan. Five of the 100 children who took Trovan died and it caused liver damage, while it caused lifelong disabilities in those who survived. But another group of 100 children were given the conventional “gold standard” meningitis antibiotic as a “control” group for comparison. Six of them also tragically died because, the families said, Pfizer had given them less than the recommended level of the conventional antibiotic in order to make Trovan look more effective. 2012: Pfizer had to pay around $1billion to settle lawsuits claiming its Prempro drug caused breast cancer. Prempro was used in hormone replacement therapy, usually for women going through the menopause. The settlements came after six years of trials and hardship for the women affected. 2013: Pfizer paid out $273 million to settle over 2,000 cases in the US that accused its smoking treatment drug Chantix of provoking suicidal and homicidal thoughts, self harm and severe psychological disorders. Pfizer was also accused of improperly excluding patients with a history of depression or other mental disturbances from trials for the drug. Later, in 2017, a coroner in Australia ruled that the drug had contributed to a man’s suicide. The man’s mother campaigned to change the label on the drug. 2020: Pfizer reached an agreement with thousands of customers of its depo-testosterone drug in 2018 after they sued it for increasing the likelihood of numerous issues, including heart attacks.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Why do you trust this company? The great news is that I don't have to. The vaccines are being widely administered by dozens of countries, each with their own regulatory authorities, and the whole process is generating enormous amounts of data, including ones outside Pfizer's control/influence.
djanogo 5y ago
Your take is completely wrong, OP didn't make it "political", he said Pfizer falsified data and your post confirms that.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > he said Pfizer falsified data Which is an assertion the BMJ article doesn't support. "Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports" "A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial."
  - throwawaymedia 5y ago
    > Ventavia executive identified three site staff members with whom to “Go over e-diary issue/falsifying data, etc.” One of them was “verbally counseled for changing data and not noting late entry,” a note indicates. > At several points during the late September meeting Jackson and the Ventavia executives discussed the possibility of the FDA showing up for an inspection (box 1). “We’re going to get some kind of letter of information at least, when the FDA gets here... know it,” an executive stated.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      > Ventavia > Ventavia You're aware that Pfizer isn't spelled V-E-N-T-A-V-I-A, yes?
jtbayly 5y ago
Wait a minute. I don’t see any political position in the comment you’re replying to. I don’t even see a hint of one. I can’t even figure out what political position on what topic would be likely.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The author was obviously aware of the possibility that "one of Pfizer's vendors did a bad thing" would likely be turned into "Pfizer bad/scary!" (with the implication that doubt should be cast on the vaccines/meds) as it is here.
encryptluks2 5y ago
Trial vendor.. LOL. Reminds me of a politician getting caught doing something. It wasn't my fault, it was the fault of the person I paid to do it.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  If a politician hired a hundred vendors to send direct mailings, and one of them used forged stamps, would it be fair to say the politician used forged stamps?
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    This is more like.. what if you're a food manufacturer and find out the food was contaminated. Do you keep shipping it to recoup costs and stay quiet, or do you come clean and risk the negative PR?
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      The vaccine wasn't contaminated, though. The worst case scenario here is ~1,200 out of 44,000 trial participants in three out of 153 trial sites may have had bad data. I would hope that Pfizer and the FDA are double-checking the data from that vendor (and I strongly suspect that one vendor with aberrant data versus the rest of them is already something they keep an eye out for). We've subsequently given (and monitored for the same sort of issues we look for in these trials) hundreds of millions of doses of the vaccine successfully.

IronWolve 5y ago

Related, FDA's War on Dr. Burzynski, after Burzynski won his court cases, the FDA gave away Burzynski patents to their FDA pharma buddies. The FDA stole it after they couldn't win lawsuits against Burzynski in multiple court cases. Found a recap via google @ https://www.jpands.org/hacienda/blevins1.html https://www.jpands.org/hacienda/blevins1.html Burzynski: Cancer Is Serious Business @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7LZ8GLerI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7LZ8GLerI

mataug 5y ago

I understand this concern, but what can I as an average citizen do about this ? - Should we choose the moderna vaccine instead ? - Should we avoid the oral vaccine, and opt for the injection instead ? - Should we merely be skeptical and wait ?

warning26 5y ago
My advice would be to avoid conspiracy theories on the internet and just live your life.
throwawaymedia 5y ago
I'm skeptical and I wait. I'll be the last one in line to take the shot. I'm a software engineer and I know that if you deploy a system to production RIGHT AWAY, something is gonna fail.
- crottypeter 5y ago
  But the virus is already in the live prod environment!
- mataug 5y ago
  Wait before taking the oral vaccine ? Or wait before taking the existing FDA approved Pfizer vaccine ? And why not take the J&J or Moderna vaccine if Pfizer is the only concern here ?

JKolios 5y ago

> covers up significant adverse effects. I can't find that in the article you linked, can you cite the relevant parts of the text?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]