4 ms·

The title is all marketing. What’s the control? > The rates of hospitalization or death in the Paxlovid and control arms were 1% and 6.7%, respectively, result

The title is all marketing. What’s the control? > The rates of hospitalization or death in the Paxlovid and control arms were 1% and 6.7%, respectively, resulting in a risk reduction of 85%. Most people that get COVID don’t go to the hospital nor do they die. How much is from a null hypothesis; people who wouldn’t have complications anyway? It’s barely significant if you use 5% as the minimum, and it can still be noise. Vaccinated people are not going to have complications like this anyway. People care about not getting infected, this treatment is inferior to monoclonal antibodies and not barely significantly different from control.

ceejayoz 5y ago
If you read past said title, the article literally includes details on the control group. > The rates of hospitalization or death in the Paxlovid and control arms were 1% and 6.7%, respectively, resulting in a risk reduction of 85%. > Pfizer used data on patients who were treated within three days of symptom onset as the headline finding in its press release. In that subpopulation, the rates of hospitalization or death in the Paxlovid and control groups were 0.8% and 7%, respectively, resulting in a risk reduction of 89%. Merck’s 50% reduction was seen in patients who were randomized within five days of symptom onset.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  My point was that we don’t know anything about the control. Age, BMI, health, vaccination status, sex. The effectiveness is very low.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > My point was that we don’t know anything about the control. Age, BMI, health, vaccination status, sex. This information will absolutely be part of the FDA's EUA process, and as such, it's a silly idea that Pfizer would've set up a study that doesn't account for these. > The effectiveness is very low. Bullshit.
    - salemh 5y ago
      Is regulatory capture not a thing anymore? Why do you trust this company? https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ 1986: Pfizer had to withdraw an artificial heart valve from the market after defects led to it being implicated in over 300 deaths. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) withdrew its approval for the product in 1986 and Pfizer agreed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation after multiple lawsuits were brought against it. 2003: Pfizer has long been condemned for profiteering from AIDS drugs. In 2003 for example, it walked away from a licencing deal for its Rescriptor drug that would have made it cheaper for poorer countries. 2011: Pfizer was forced to pay compensation to families of children killed in the controversial Trovan drug trial. During the worst meningitis epidemic seen in Africa, in 1996, Pfizer ran a trial in Nigeria their new drug Trovan. Five of the 100 children who took Trovan died and it caused liver damage, while it caused lifelong disabilities in those who survived. But another group of 100 children were given the conventional “gold standard” meningitis antibiotic as a “control” group for comparison. Six of them also tragically died because, the families said, Pfizer had given them less than the recommended level of the conventional antibiotic in order to make Trovan look more effective. 2012: Pfizer had to pay around $1billion to settle lawsuits claiming its Prempro drug caused breast cancer. Prempro was used in hormone replacement therapy, usually for women going through the menopause. The settlements came after six years of trials and hardship for the women affected. 2013: Pfizer paid out $273 million to settle over 2,000 cases in the US that accused its smoking treatment drug Chantix of provoking suicidal and homicidal thoughts, self harm and severe psychological disorders. Pfizer was also accused of improperly excluding patients with a history of depression or other mental disturbances from trials for the drug. Later, in 2017, a coroner in Australia ruled that the drug had contributed to a man’s suicide. The man’s mother campaigned to change the label on the drug. 2020: Pfizer reached an agreement with thousands of customers of its depo-testosterone drug in 2018 after they sued it for increasing the likelihood of numerous issues, including heart attacks.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        You've already copypasta'ed me this elsewhere.

ceejayoz 5y ago

If you read past said title, the article literally includes details on the control group. > The rates of hospitalization or death in the Paxlovid and control arms were 1% and 6.7%, respectively, resulting in a risk reduction of 85%. > Pfizer used data on patients who were treated within three days of symptom onset as the headline finding in its press release. In that subpopulation, the rates of hospitalization or death in the Paxlovid and control groups were 0.8% and 7%, respectively, resulting in a risk reduction of 89%. Merck’s 50% reduction was seen in patients who were randomized within five days of symptom onset.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
My point was that we don’t know anything about the control. Age, BMI, health, vaccination status, sex. The effectiveness is very low.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > My point was that we don’t know anything about the control. Age, BMI, health, vaccination status, sex. This information will absolutely be part of the FDA's EUA process, and as such, it's a silly idea that Pfizer would've set up a study that doesn't account for these. > The effectiveness is very low. Bullshit.
  - salemh 5y ago
    Is regulatory capture not a thing anymore? Why do you trust this company? https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/ 1986: Pfizer had to withdraw an artificial heart valve from the market after defects led to it being implicated in over 300 deaths. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) withdrew its approval for the product in 1986 and Pfizer agreed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation after multiple lawsuits were brought against it. 2003: Pfizer has long been condemned for profiteering from AIDS drugs. In 2003 for example, it walked away from a licencing deal for its Rescriptor drug that would have made it cheaper for poorer countries. 2011: Pfizer was forced to pay compensation to families of children killed in the controversial Trovan drug trial. During the worst meningitis epidemic seen in Africa, in 1996, Pfizer ran a trial in Nigeria their new drug Trovan. Five of the 100 children who took Trovan died and it caused liver damage, while it caused lifelong disabilities in those who survived. But another group of 100 children were given the conventional “gold standard” meningitis antibiotic as a “control” group for comparison. Six of them also tragically died because, the families said, Pfizer had given them less than the recommended level of the conventional antibiotic in order to make Trovan look more effective. 2012: Pfizer had to pay around $1billion to settle lawsuits claiming its Prempro drug caused breast cancer. Prempro was used in hormone replacement therapy, usually for women going through the menopause. The settlements came after six years of trials and hardship for the women affected. 2013: Pfizer paid out $273 million to settle over 2,000 cases in the US that accused its smoking treatment drug Chantix of provoking suicidal and homicidal thoughts, self harm and severe psychological disorders. Pfizer was also accused of improperly excluding patients with a history of depression or other mental disturbances from trials for the drug. Later, in 2017, a coroner in Australia ruled that the drug had contributed to a man’s suicide. The man’s mother campaigned to change the label on the drug. 2020: Pfizer reached an agreement with thousands of customers of its depo-testosterone drug in 2018 after they sued it for increasing the likelihood of numerous issues, including heart attacks.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      You've already copypasta'ed me this elsewhere.