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> Taiwan is a single province of China No. Taiwan is not part of China. For 200 years the Qing dynasty did nothing with Taiwan. It never ruled it, never contro

> Taiwan is a single province of China No. Taiwan is not part of China. For 200 years the Qing dynasty did nothing with Taiwan. It never ruled it, never controlled the people. In 1887 the decided oneday “let’s call Taiwan a Provence” This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” When the Japanese invaded Taiwan, the Qing dynasty threw in the towel immediately and said “yeah we don’t care it’s yours”. Japan then ruled Taiwan with an iron fist, implementing law and order, education, infrastructure, and teaching Japanese. At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Taiwan is not a Provence.

mytailorisrich 5y ago
I certainly agree that Taiwan is not a Provence. However, it is indeed historically and factually a province of China. This is actually internationally recognised and that's why in 1945 it was retroceded by Japan to the Republic of China, where it remains. If you want to nit-pick I will grant you that between 1683 and 1887 it was part of Fujian province rather that being an administrative province in its own right. > This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” No, this is equivalent to Americans moving to Hawaii and calling it a state... And in fact, China took over Taiwan to counter Europeans who were seizing all the land they could all over the world, and tried to seize Taiwan as well. > At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Formally it did between 1683 and 1895, and then it has been since 1945.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  It was a province historically, but it no longer is because that's what the people of Taiwan want. I don't think they want any part of China's totalitarianism. Texas was once its own country, but that doesn't make it a country now.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    It's obvious that they don't want to be part of the PRC, especially under the current regime, but that is not equivalent to being against eventual reunification. It is still the Republic of China, that still has its National Day on 10th October to celebrate the fall of the Qing, and Sun Yat Sen's portrait is still in the Legislative Yuan. As such, formally Taiwan is the only province still controlled by the Republic of China. A number of Taiwanese people are opposed to any reunification and want Taiwan to be "Taiwan", but it's very biased to claim that this is what 'the people of Taiwan want' as if China was a foreign country, and is frankly a narrative pushed to weaken China, the PRC mainly but really China no matter the government (divide and conquer strategy).
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      > but it's very biased to claim that this is what 'the people of Taiwan want' and is frankly a narrative pushed to weaken China The vast majority of people here in Taiwan don’t want to be part of china. Especially after Hong Kong and covid.
      - mytailorisrich 5y ago
        As already written they are already part of China. They don't want to be part of the PRC, as has been the case since 1949. That's why there is internally (in Taiwan) a struggle of opinions between this and "independence". Trying to ignore that 'China' is not the same as 'PRC' is disingenuous at some point... Like claiming that Taiwan was never a province of China...
        philliphaydon 5y ago
        Doesn’t matter which way you say it. Taiwan is not part of China.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        Taiwan's name is literally the Republic of China. To say they don't identify as China is incredibly misleading. Taiwan absolutely see themselves as heirs of Chinese culture and lineage.They are split on if they want to be the sole heir or share it with the PRC. They don't want to be part of the PRC, but they are and want to be Chinese.
- petre 5y ago
  > in 1945 it was retroceded by Japan to the Republic of China Taiwan is the Republic of China, it was never ceded to the or part of the PRC.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    The PRC did not exist at the time... I'm not sure what point your are making beyond agreeing with me, and the reality, that Taiwan is indeed part of China. The point I am trying again and again to get across is that China does not imply PRC. For instance North Korea is part of Korea, South Korea is part of Korea, but North Korea is not part of South Korea. Saying that Taiwan was never part of the PRC is true, and I mentioned it in another comment, but it is misleading.
    - adolph 5y ago
      Yes, maybe the ROC should work towards an eventual liberation of the territory under PRC occupation.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  > However, it is indeed historically and factually a province of China. It was a part of China. But things change. The CCP took over the mainland but not Formosa, the rump state moved to Formosa, and these became two separate countries moving along different paths. Every year they grow farther and farther apart. Now it's an independent country with its own government, population, currency, military, flag, land, economy, institutions, foreign policy, citizenship, and culture. They have their own academic system, their own universities, their own borders, legal system, constitution, etc. However this country can't "declare" its own independence because of the threats of Chinese violence. Well, that doesn't change the fact that it's a separate country. I may not "declare" that I am not a part of Roy Orbison's family, but that doesn't mean I'm part of that family. You don't need to make a declaration of what is an obvious fact. You just go about your life with your own country and enjoy your freedom and prosperity. This will continue until China's government collapses and the threat of violence against Taiwan is gone, or until no one cares whether a declaration is made or not because the holdouts that still think that China and Taiwan can possibly be the same country will be so laughed at that no one will take them seriously.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

I certainly agree that Taiwan is not a Provence. However, it is indeed historically and factually a province of China. This is actually internationally recognised and that's why in 1945 it was retroceded by Japan to the Republic of China, where it remains. If you want to nit-pick I will grant you that between 1683 and 1887 it was part of Fujian province rather that being an administrative province in its own right. > This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” No, this is equivalent to Americans moving to Hawaii and calling it a state... And in fact, China took over Taiwan to counter Europeans who were seizing all the land they could all over the world, and tried to seize Taiwan as well. > At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Formally it did between 1683 and 1895, and then it has been since 1945.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
It was a province historically, but it no longer is because that's what the people of Taiwan want. I don't think they want any part of China's totalitarianism. Texas was once its own country, but that doesn't make it a country now.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  It's obvious that they don't want to be part of the PRC, especially under the current regime, but that is not equivalent to being against eventual reunification. It is still the Republic of China, that still has its National Day on 10th October to celebrate the fall of the Qing, and Sun Yat Sen's portrait is still in the Legislative Yuan. As such, formally Taiwan is the only province still controlled by the Republic of China. A number of Taiwanese people are opposed to any reunification and want Taiwan to be "Taiwan", but it's very biased to claim that this is what 'the people of Taiwan want' as if China was a foreign country, and is frankly a narrative pushed to weaken China, the PRC mainly but really China no matter the government (divide and conquer strategy).
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    > but it's very biased to claim that this is what 'the people of Taiwan want' and is frankly a narrative pushed to weaken China The vast majority of people here in Taiwan don’t want to be part of china. Especially after Hong Kong and covid.
    - mytailorisrich 5y ago
      As already written they are already part of China. They don't want to be part of the PRC, as has been the case since 1949. That's why there is internally (in Taiwan) a struggle of opinions between this and "independence". Trying to ignore that 'China' is not the same as 'PRC' is disingenuous at some point... Like claiming that Taiwan was never a province of China...
      - philliphaydon 5y ago
        Doesn’t matter which way you say it. Taiwan is not part of China.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        Taiwan's name is literally the Republic of China. To say they don't identify as China is incredibly misleading. Taiwan absolutely see themselves as heirs of Chinese culture and lineage.They are split on if they want to be the sole heir or share it with the PRC. They don't want to be part of the PRC, but they are and want to be Chinese.
petre 5y ago
> in 1945 it was retroceded by Japan to the Republic of China Taiwan is the Republic of China, it was never ceded to the or part of the PRC.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  The PRC did not exist at the time... I'm not sure what point your are making beyond agreeing with me, and the reality, that Taiwan is indeed part of China. The point I am trying again and again to get across is that China does not imply PRC. For instance North Korea is part of Korea, South Korea is part of Korea, but North Korea is not part of South Korea. Saying that Taiwan was never part of the PRC is true, and I mentioned it in another comment, but it is misleading.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Yes, maybe the ROC should work towards an eventual liberation of the territory under PRC occupation.
rsj_hn 5y ago
> However, it is indeed historically and factually a province of China. It was a part of China. But things change. The CCP took over the mainland but not Formosa, the rump state moved to Formosa, and these became two separate countries moving along different paths. Every year they grow farther and farther apart. Now it's an independent country with its own government, population, currency, military, flag, land, economy, institutions, foreign policy, citizenship, and culture. They have their own academic system, their own universities, their own borders, legal system, constitution, etc. However this country can't "declare" its own independence because of the threats of Chinese violence. Well, that doesn't change the fact that it's a separate country. I may not "declare" that I am not a part of Roy Orbison's family, but that doesn't mean I'm part of that family. You don't need to make a declaration of what is an obvious fact. You just go about your life with your own country and enjoy your freedom and prosperity. This will continue until China's government collapses and the threat of violence against Taiwan is gone, or until no one cares whether a declaration is made or not because the holdouts that still think that China and Taiwan can possibly be the same country will be so laughed at that no one will take them seriously.