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I just completed my migration in the opposite direction after using Arch Linux as my daily driver for ~10 years. I think Arch Linux is by far the better OS for

I just completed my migration in the opposite direction after using Arch Linux as my daily driver for ~10 years. I think Arch Linux is by far the better OS for pretty much all power users, but when using multiple devices, the benefits of the "Apple Ecosystem" outweigh the benefits of an amazing desktop OS for me, which is why I ended up switching to Mac OS. Some key points which I believe are much worse on Mac: * No great package managers. Nothing is super-integrated with the core system like pacman is in Arch, and even when heavily using some package manager, there will always be a bunch of software that can only be updated using their own auto-update mechanism instead of a central package manager. * Docker in general is just much slower compared to running directly on Linux. * Setting up ergonomic custom keyboard shortcuts is painful and requires (multiple?) third-party applications to do well.

foobarian 5y ago
The Alt-Tab behavior on MacOS across multiple screens is really annoying. Also window resizing behaviors. If there was a way to override those it would be an unmatched system/environment.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  I haven’t tried it so I can’t vouch for it, but AltTab[0] may meet your window switching needs. What specifically would you prefer to be different for window resizing behaviors? If it’s something akin to Aero Snap on Windows there’s a multitude of options, including Moom[1], Rectangle[2], and Magnet[3] among others. [0]: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ [1]: https://manytricks.com/moom/ https://manytricks.com/moom/ [2]: https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/ [3]: https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/ https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/
- wyclif 5y ago
  I've said this many times on this forum, but the fact that macOS doesn't natively allow users to snap windows to the edge is incredibly annoying, and is one of those indications of the wrong and stubborn choices made in the design of the OS. Most Linux distros don't assume they know how users want their windows arranged. macOS says, "We, in fact, do know better than users how large windows should be and where they should be placed."
Offpics 5y ago
Im going to switch from arch to mac in one month. What I should consider installing on it beside homebrew?
- kristofferR 5y ago
  Bartender, Karabiner-Elements, MacUpdater, NightOwl, iStat Menus, Keyboard Maestro, Rectangle, Amphetamine are some of the most important "OS Enhancement" apps I use. TripMode, Tripsy, 1Password, Raindrop.io, iTerm, Tower, IINA, Soulver, Spark, Carbon Copy Cloner, Find Any File, Flux, Pacifist, are some my most used "non-common" apps (excluding things like Firefox and VS Code).
  - deadbunny 5y ago
    Macs Just Work. Sorry, just found it funny with the big list of applications you're recommending to install to do basic thing in OSX when the usual argument against Linux on HN is "Macs just work".
    - manquer 5y ago
      They do for regular users who use typical end user apps it doesn't just work for devs. Apple is not designing OS for devs their vast majority of users are not devs or even professionals these days, while macs can be used for development with some wrangling to get a POSIX like environment without too much performance loss, it is not linux. Docker will run in a VM and be slower and some basic stuff like procfs would be completely missing , most of their gnu utils are from late 80s GPL being the reason. I am also moving back to apple largely because of the m1x performance and battery. Hope Asahi becomes very stable soon on M1
      - pxc 5y ago
        > Apple is not designing OS for devs their vast majority of users are not devs or even professionals these days yeah. So why are so many devs more or less forced to use MacBooks? someone tell their CTOs
pkulak 5y ago
Whoa now, don't leave me hanging. What are the benefits of the "Apple ecosystem"? I'm using a Macbook right now because it's tiny and light and has amazing hardware, but once I need to get things done, it's closed and charging. If you have multiple devices, why do they all need to be identical?
- lmohseni 5y ago
  I have a macbook and and Iphone, so one handy thing I use is the clipboard is shared between devices on the same LAN that are signed into the same icloud accont. so I can select some text with my mouse, hit "paste" in my phone, and it works instantaneously. definitely one of those "wow we live in the future" moments.
  - vbarrielle 5y ago
    This feature is available for the linux/android combination using kdeconnect. Unfortunately I don't think there's an iOS app for that.
    - johnny22 5y ago
      the ios app just came out recently didn't it? I think i saw that mentioned.I don't use iOS, but i saw articles about it. YMMV.
- stnikolauswagne 5y ago
  Having my phonecalls automatically forwarded to my laptop is a huge benefit. Being able to use my iPad pro as a secondary monitor for when I have to go into the office is very useful as well. Painless copy-paste between devices is also a huge bonus. I‘m sure there are ways to get all of that running on linux but I‘d rather spend the time that it would take setting all that up working and let my company pay a bit more on my equipment.
  - pkulak 5y ago
    Is all that really a "huge" benefit? I never get phone calls that aren't spam, or have the need to copy paste from a phone. And an 11-inch second monitor doesn't sound like a huge benefit. Especially when I could just have my company "pay a bit more" on a real second monitor. But, not gonna discount your perspective. Everyone has different priorities, and it's why different products exist for different folks.
remolueoend 5y ago
Your last point is interesting. When I switched from macOS to Linux, the tool is missed most was definitely Karabiner-Elements. I got nightmares from xkb & related tools.
- pxc 5y ago
  What remappings do you use?
shbooms 5y ago
> Setting up ergonomic custom keyboard shortcuts is painful and requires (multiple?) third-party applications to do well. Take a look at Hammerspoon[0] for this if you haven't already. It requires some work to get it working the way want (you'll be writing some basic Lua code) but it's by far the best, all-in-one solution I've found for this problem on macOS. It has a ton of built-in modules for automating things including being to setup hotkeys globally as well as modal/on per-app basis [0] https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Hammerspoon is what makes macOS usable for me (plus karabiner for caps lock twiddling). The randomly rearranging layout of mission control has to be the most user hostile annoyance I have ever experienced in an OS to date. Ironically, there isn't anything equivalent to it in linux land, and once I had gotten some really nice customizations, going back makes me a little sad.
  - voltaireodactyl 5y ago
    If you’re talking about spaces automatically swapping around, you can disable that functionality in System Preferences-Mission Control, just fyi.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  If Lua scripting doesn't float your boat and you don't mind commercial software, Keyboard Maestro[0] is brilliant. I use it for: * Expanding text macros (like TextExpander but not with a subscription) * Automating web forms I have to fill out frequently (find the "Last Name" button; send "Smith"; hit "tab"; send "Joe"; find the "Submit this form" button and press it). * Opening apps with hotkeys. * Scripting stuff that isn't scriptable, like "find the Music app; right click on the ... menu; click Share; click Copy Link" to get the currently playing song's URL. (PS: If you know how to reliably get this another way, please let me know.) * Doing really nifty things with OCR on the screen, like "send this set of keypresses, then look for the text that says 'I accept this', put the mouse over it, and click it" for apps that don't use native widgets. Hammerspoon is super cool too, but I don't have the time to really tweak it as much as I can Keyboard Maestro. [0] https://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/ https://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/
exegete 5y ago
I’m actually in the same boat. My approach to save a few bucks was to buy a lower end laptop I knew was somewhat compatible with Arch. But now I want something that just works without me configuring everything (and some better hardware too). I still have a box I built at home that I can tinker with Linux if I want too.
javier2 5y ago
I only use macOS for work now because they have become too expensive to keep one just for personal use. The new M1 Air is not that expensive though, but it's still 3 times the price of a decent AMD based laptop.
gonehome 5y ago
Yeah - I used Arch and other distributions for years and always ended up back on macOS. There are tradeoffs, but on net it's hard to beat macOS especially if you use other Apple devices (plus the hardware has been getting better and better). It's nice to have things work out of the box and never having to worry about things like hibernate, suspend, battery life etc. Trackpads, display resolution, fonts, random config failures - plus any macOS issue is usually easier to find a real solution for online imo. Even in this article a ton of stuff seems like a pain in the ass: - Hacking to connect bluetooth headphones - Config required to reconnect to wifi - Config required to get the monitor working - No good native calendar And of course at the end suspend/hibernate is still not working (naturally, probably never will work 100%). I'd also guess battery life is pretty bad and the UI of the tiling wm may be missing nice to have things (like accurate battery remaining).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
randomluck040 5y ago
I just got my first Mac ever: a MacBook Air M1. Coming from Arch I thought I would handle it easy. How bad can it be? It just works, right?… right? So I wanted a laptop instead of a desktop computer and Framework isn’t available where I’m from so I went for the MacBook. In terms of performance, all is fine. Some OS based decisions make me want to put everything back into the packaging and send the thing back. 1) I might be alone with this but how is there no forward delete (del) button? I’ve never noticed but apparently I use it quite a lot. cmd + Backspace solves that. 2) The entire OS feels more trackpad-centric than other OS‘s I’ve used which confuses me. The gestures and the trackpad are top notch though. 3) I don’t understand the Option key. Overall the Command, Option and CTRL keys do weird things in my opinion and growing up with Windows and Linux, I don’t understand what command does either. Which leads me to… 4) The keyboard shortcuts feel complicated for the sake of complicatedness. 5) Why can I not click an app on the dock to minimise it into the dock? 6) The delete key, man. This sounds negative but there’s a lot of positive stuff with that thing (I’m good with the display and keyboard, the battery life is crazy compared to laptops I’ve had before, …). I’m not sure yet if I want to learn a whole new OS though so I’m undecided if I want to keep it yet. The main downside of using Linux for me is Adobe (effing) Photoshop and Lightroom not working.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- least 5y ago
  > The keyboard shortcuts feel complicated for the sake of complicatedness. Mac's shortcut paradigms developed independently of IBM's CUA so they're definitely not complicated for the sake of complexity. I actually think for use with a unix-based operating system, they're much more sensible. There's no overlap with terminal commands that are mostly based on control, thus you don't need to remap basic things like pasting in the terminal to ctrl+shift+v. > The delete key, man. It doesn't exist as a physical key but it does work with an external keyboard. Alternatively, you might find something like Karabiner Elements [1] useful. You can make all sorts of arbitrary changes to the keyboard's behavior, including the built in one. This is sort of similar to setxkbmap, xcape, and interception-tools in linux land. [1] https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/ https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/

foobarian 5y ago

The Alt-Tab behavior on MacOS across multiple screens is really annoying. Also window resizing behaviors. If there was a way to override those it would be an unmatched system/environment.

kitsunesoba 5y ago
I haven’t tried it so I can’t vouch for it, but AltTab[0] may meet your window switching needs. What specifically would you prefer to be different for window resizing behaviors? If it’s something akin to Aero Snap on Windows there’s a multitude of options, including Moom[1], Rectangle[2], and Magnet[3] among others. [0]: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ [1]: https://manytricks.com/moom/ https://manytricks.com/moom/ [2]: https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/ [3]: https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/ https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/
wyclif 5y ago
I've said this many times on this forum, but the fact that macOS doesn't natively allow users to snap windows to the edge is incredibly annoying, and is one of those indications of the wrong and stubborn choices made in the design of the OS. Most Linux distros don't assume they know how users want their windows arranged. macOS says, "We, in fact, do know better than users how large windows should be and where they should be placed."

Offpics 5y ago

Im going to switch from arch to mac in one month. What I should consider installing on it beside homebrew?

kristofferR 5y ago
Bartender, Karabiner-Elements, MacUpdater, NightOwl, iStat Menus, Keyboard Maestro, Rectangle, Amphetamine are some of the most important "OS Enhancement" apps I use. TripMode, Tripsy, 1Password, Raindrop.io, iTerm, Tower, IINA, Soulver, Spark, Carbon Copy Cloner, Find Any File, Flux, Pacifist, are some my most used "non-common" apps (excluding things like Firefox and VS Code).
- deadbunny 5y ago
  Macs Just Work. Sorry, just found it funny with the big list of applications you're recommending to install to do basic thing in OSX when the usual argument against Linux on HN is "Macs just work".
  - manquer 5y ago
    They do for regular users who use typical end user apps it doesn't just work for devs. Apple is not designing OS for devs their vast majority of users are not devs or even professionals these days, while macs can be used for development with some wrangling to get a POSIX like environment without too much performance loss, it is not linux. Docker will run in a VM and be slower and some basic stuff like procfs would be completely missing , most of their gnu utils are from late 80s GPL being the reason. I am also moving back to apple largely because of the m1x performance and battery. Hope Asahi becomes very stable soon on M1
    - pxc 5y ago
      > Apple is not designing OS for devs their vast majority of users are not devs or even professionals these days yeah. So why are so many devs more or less forced to use MacBooks? someone tell their CTOs

pkulak 5y ago

Whoa now, don't leave me hanging. What are the benefits of the "Apple ecosystem"? I'm using a Macbook right now because it's tiny and light and has amazing hardware, but once I need to get things done, it's closed and charging. If you have multiple devices, why do they all need to be identical?

lmohseni 5y ago
I have a macbook and and Iphone, so one handy thing I use is the clipboard is shared between devices on the same LAN that are signed into the same icloud accont. so I can select some text with my mouse, hit "paste" in my phone, and it works instantaneously. definitely one of those "wow we live in the future" moments.
- vbarrielle 5y ago
  This feature is available for the linux/android combination using kdeconnect. Unfortunately I don't think there's an iOS app for that.
  - johnny22 5y ago
    the ios app just came out recently didn't it? I think i saw that mentioned.I don't use iOS, but i saw articles about it. YMMV.
stnikolauswagne 5y ago
Having my phonecalls automatically forwarded to my laptop is a huge benefit. Being able to use my iPad pro as a secondary monitor for when I have to go into the office is very useful as well. Painless copy-paste between devices is also a huge bonus. I‘m sure there are ways to get all of that running on linux but I‘d rather spend the time that it would take setting all that up working and let my company pay a bit more on my equipment.
- pkulak 5y ago
  Is all that really a "huge" benefit? I never get phone calls that aren't spam, or have the need to copy paste from a phone. And an 11-inch second monitor doesn't sound like a huge benefit. Especially when I could just have my company "pay a bit more" on a real second monitor. But, not gonna discount your perspective. Everyone has different priorities, and it's why different products exist for different folks.

remolueoend 5y ago

Your last point is interesting. When I switched from macOS to Linux, the tool is missed most was definitely Karabiner-Elements. I got nightmares from xkb & related tools.

pxc 5y ago
What remappings do you use?

shbooms 5y ago

> Setting up ergonomic custom keyboard shortcuts is painful and requires (multiple?) third-party applications to do well. Take a look at Hammerspoon[0] for this if you haven't already. It requires some work to get it working the way want (you'll be writing some basic Lua code) but it's by far the best, all-in-one solution I've found for this problem on macOS. It has a ton of built-in modules for automating things including being to setup hotkeys globally as well as modal/on per-app basis [0] https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon

zdragnar 5y ago
Hammerspoon is what makes macOS usable for me (plus karabiner for caps lock twiddling). The randomly rearranging layout of mission control has to be the most user hostile annoyance I have ever experienced in an OS to date. Ironically, there isn't anything equivalent to it in linux land, and once I had gotten some really nice customizations, going back makes me a little sad.
- voltaireodactyl 5y ago
  If you’re talking about spaces automatically swapping around, you can disable that functionality in System Preferences-Mission Control, just fyi.
kstrauser 5y ago
If Lua scripting doesn't float your boat and you don't mind commercial software, Keyboard Maestro[0] is brilliant. I use it for: * Expanding text macros (like TextExpander but not with a subscription) * Automating web forms I have to fill out frequently (find the "Last Name" button; send "Smith"; hit "tab"; send "Joe"; find the "Submit this form" button and press it). * Opening apps with hotkeys. * Scripting stuff that isn't scriptable, like "find the Music app; right click on the ... menu; click Share; click Copy Link" to get the currently playing song's URL. (PS: If you know how to reliably get this another way, please let me know.) * Doing really nifty things with OCR on the screen, like "send this set of keypresses, then look for the text that says 'I accept this', put the mouse over it, and click it" for apps that don't use native widgets. Hammerspoon is super cool too, but I don't have the time to really tweak it as much as I can Keyboard Maestro. [0] https://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/ https://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/

exegete 5y ago

I’m actually in the same boat. My approach to save a few bucks was to buy a lower end laptop I knew was somewhat compatible with Arch. But now I want something that just works without me configuring everything (and some better hardware too). I still have a box I built at home that I can tinker with Linux if I want too.

javier2 5y ago

I only use macOS for work now because they have become too expensive to keep one just for personal use. The new M1 Air is not that expensive though, but it's still 3 times the price of a decent AMD based laptop.

gonehome 5y ago

Yeah - I used Arch and other distributions for years and always ended up back on macOS. There are tradeoffs, but on net it's hard to beat macOS especially if you use other Apple devices (plus the hardware has been getting better and better). It's nice to have things work out of the box and never having to worry about things like hibernate, suspend, battery life etc. Trackpads, display resolution, fonts, random config failures - plus any macOS issue is usually easier to find a real solution for online imo. Even in this article a ton of stuff seems like a pain in the ass: - Hacking to connect bluetooth headphones - Config required to reconnect to wifi - Config required to get the monitor working - No good native calendar And of course at the end suspend/hibernate is still not working (naturally, probably never will work 100%). I'd also guess battery life is pretty bad and the UI of the tiling wm may be missing nice to have things (like accurate battery remaining).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

randomluck040 5y ago

I just got my first Mac ever: a MacBook Air M1. Coming from Arch I thought I would handle it easy. How bad can it be? It just works, right?… right? So I wanted a laptop instead of a desktop computer and Framework isn’t available where I’m from so I went for the MacBook. In terms of performance, all is fine. Some OS based decisions make me want to put everything back into the packaging and send the thing back. 1) I might be alone with this but how is there no forward delete (del) button? I’ve never noticed but apparently I use it quite a lot. cmd + Backspace solves that. 2) The entire OS feels more trackpad-centric than other OS‘s I’ve used which confuses me. The gestures and the trackpad are top notch though. 3) I don’t understand the Option key. Overall the Command, Option and CTRL keys do weird things in my opinion and growing up with Windows and Linux, I don’t understand what command does either. Which leads me to… 4) The keyboard shortcuts feel complicated for the sake of complicatedness. 5) Why can I not click an app on the dock to minimise it into the dock? 6) The delete key, man. This sounds negative but there’s a lot of positive stuff with that thing (I’m good with the display and keyboard, the battery life is crazy compared to laptops I’ve had before, …). I’m not sure yet if I want to learn a whole new OS though so I’m undecided if I want to keep it yet. The main downside of using Linux for me is Adobe (effing) Photoshop and Lightroom not working.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
least 5y ago
> The keyboard shortcuts feel complicated for the sake of complicatedness. Mac's shortcut paradigms developed independently of IBM's CUA so they're definitely not complicated for the sake of complexity. I actually think for use with a unix-based operating system, they're much more sensible. There's no overlap with terminal commands that are mostly based on control, thus you don't need to remap basic things like pasting in the terminal to ctrl+shift+v. > The delete key, man. It doesn't exist as a physical key but it does work with an external keyboard. Alternatively, you might find something like Karabiner Elements [1] useful. You can make all sorts of arbitrary changes to the keyboard's behavior, including the built in one. This is sort of similar to setxkbmap, xcape, and interception-tools in linux land. [1] https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/ https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/