5 ms·

I often wonder why we don't use North China, and South China. I guess it boils down to influence.

by irthomasthomas 5y ago

HideousKojima 5y ago
Personally I prefer "Taiwan" and "West Taiwan" solely to annoy pro-CCP shills/50 cent army posters.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  My favorite way to poke the 50 cent army is to say I hope that Taiwan has nukes / the US should give Taiwan nukes. It cuts right to the core dissonance between the "Taiwan was always part of China" claims and the actual sovereignty situation on the ground.
  - stevespang 5y ago
    [dead]
  - adolph 5y ago
    Do they not already have one of those totally peaceful, totally civilian nuclear programs?
kingkawn 5y ago
Cause the terminology is not historically relevant to the region or the way people talk about those areas
- adolph 5y ago
  Why is “historically relevant” relevant? People can choose how they talk about the region and how people talk about some thing frames how folks think about it. The PRC wants to guide how people view its claims. On what basis is a different claim any less valid?
  - kingkawn 5y ago
    Historical relevance means using terminology that is relevant to the people who are there. North and south China have meanings to people already that aren’t the ones suggested above. That everyone isnt changing to match a drive-by attempt at terminology to satisfy no need is self explanatory.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      Yeah North and South China are still mainland China to me. Taiwan is Taiwan and a perfectly useable name.
    - adolph 5y ago
      > Historical relevance means using terminology that is relevant to the people who are there. Wouldn’t that approach needlessly advantage genocidaires?
      - kingkawn 5y ago
        It advantages common use by people that makes it easier to communicate, not the cultural engineering you’re imagining
ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
I reckon it's got more to do with land area and population.
- adolph 5y ago
  If the PRC were confident in their claim, given the land area and population, you’d think they wouldn’t give two poos what people support.
rich_sasha 5y ago
Perhaps because both claim to be “the one China”, just figuring out who’s right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_policy
mytailorisrich 5y ago
Because of two things: 1. Taiwan is a single province of China, not a large split of the country like happened in Germany, Korea, Vietnam. In the US that would be like if a small state split from the rest. 2. Perhaps more importantly, the PRC considers that the ROC ceased to exist in 1949 and was fully superseded by the PRC. So Taiwan is really just a province of the PRC and must be referred to as such in order to walk the political/rhetorical line. For historical reasons they are very touchy about giving the impression that China is split into several states.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  > Taiwan is a single province of China No. Taiwan is not part of China. For 200 years the Qing dynasty did nothing with Taiwan. It never ruled it, never controlled the people. In 1887 the decided oneday “let’s call Taiwan a Provence” This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” When the Japanese invaded Taiwan, the Qing dynasty threw in the towel immediately and said “yeah we don’t care it’s yours”. Japan then ruled Taiwan with an iron fist, implementing law and order, education, infrastructure, and teaching Japanese. At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Taiwan is not a Provence.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    I certainly agree that Taiwan is not a Provence. However, it is indeed historically and factually a province of China. This is actually internationally recognised and that's why in 1945 it was retroceded by Japan to the Republic of China, where it remains. If you want to nit-pick I will grant you that between 1683 and 1887 it was part of Fujian province rather that being an administrative province in its own right. > This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” No, this is equivalent to Americans moving to Hawaii and calling it a state... And in fact, China took over Taiwan to counter Europeans who were seizing all the land they could all over the world, and tried to seize Taiwan as well. > At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Formally it did between 1683 and 1895, and then it has been since 1945.

I often wonder why we don't use North China, and South China. I guess it boils down to influence.

HideousKojima 5y ago

Personally I prefer "Taiwan" and "West Taiwan" solely to annoy pro-CCP shills/50 cent army posters.

jjoonathan 5y ago
My favorite way to poke the 50 cent army is to say I hope that Taiwan has nukes / the US should give Taiwan nukes. It cuts right to the core dissonance between the "Taiwan was always part of China" claims and the actual sovereignty situation on the ground.
- stevespang 5y ago
  [dead]
- adolph 5y ago
  Do they not already have one of those totally peaceful, totally civilian nuclear programs?

kingkawn 5y ago

Cause the terminology is not historically relevant to the region or the way people talk about those areas

adolph 5y ago
Why is “historically relevant” relevant? People can choose how they talk about the region and how people talk about some thing frames how folks think about it. The PRC wants to guide how people view its claims. On what basis is a different claim any less valid?
- kingkawn 5y ago
  Historical relevance means using terminology that is relevant to the people who are there. North and south China have meanings to people already that aren’t the ones suggested above. That everyone isnt changing to match a drive-by attempt at terminology to satisfy no need is self explanatory.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Yeah North and South China are still mainland China to me. Taiwan is Taiwan and a perfectly useable name.
  - adolph 5y ago
    > Historical relevance means using terminology that is relevant to the people who are there. Wouldn’t that approach needlessly advantage genocidaires?
    - kingkawn 5y ago
      It advantages common use by people that makes it easier to communicate, not the cultural engineering you’re imagining

ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago

I reckon it's got more to do with land area and population.

adolph 5y ago
If the PRC were confident in their claim, given the land area and population, you’d think they wouldn’t give two poos what people support.

rich_sasha 5y ago

Perhaps because both claim to be “the one China”, just figuring out who’s right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_policy

mytailorisrich 5y ago

Because of two things: 1. Taiwan is a single province of China, not a large split of the country like happened in Germany, Korea, Vietnam. In the US that would be like if a small state split from the rest. 2. Perhaps more importantly, the PRC considers that the ROC ceased to exist in 1949 and was fully superseded by the PRC. So Taiwan is really just a province of the PRC and must be referred to as such in order to walk the political/rhetorical line. For historical reasons they are very touchy about giving the impression that China is split into several states.

philliphaydon 5y ago
> Taiwan is a single province of China No. Taiwan is not part of China. For 200 years the Qing dynasty did nothing with Taiwan. It never ruled it, never controlled the people. In 1887 the decided oneday “let’s call Taiwan a Provence” This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” When the Japanese invaded Taiwan, the Qing dynasty threw in the towel immediately and said “yeah we don’t care it’s yours”. Japan then ruled Taiwan with an iron fist, implementing law and order, education, infrastructure, and teaching Japanese. At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Taiwan is not a Provence.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  I certainly agree that Taiwan is not a Provence. However, it is indeed historically and factually a province of China. This is actually internationally recognised and that's why in 1945 it was retroceded by Japan to the Republic of China, where it remains. If you want to nit-pick I will grant you that between 1683 and 1887 it was part of Fujian province rather that being an administrative province in its own right. > This is the equivalent of a bunch of Americans moving to Canada and after a couple of generations America saying “let’s call Canada a state” No, this is equivalent to Americans moving to Hawaii and calling it a state... And in fact, China took over Taiwan to counter Europeans who were seizing all the land they could all over the world, and tried to seize Taiwan as well. > At no point in history has china ever ruled over Taiwan. Formally it did between 1683 and 1895, and then it has been since 1945.