5 ms·

> Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? Yes to all four. The chickl

> Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing' for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is now a chore to look and see where they have moved things. The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by the OS, such as the e550 and e330

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flyinghamster 5y ago
The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
alexvoda 5y ago
I agree that there have been several misssteps (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) but I think there is a lot to like about the current itereation as seen on the T14 (1). It was even officialy converted into a wireless keyboard (2). Things I like in no paticular order: - Shape of keys: mostly flat chicklet but slightly scooped, rectangular with one curved edge, island style - Fn keys are separated in groups of 4 - Spacebar is exactly 5U long and alligned to CVBNM (I find verry annoying when this is not the case) - Modifier keys are vertically aligned to shift row keys - Home, End, Insert, Delete placement is reasonable (especially Esc is above ~, Delete is above Backspace and Insert is next to Delete) though I usually find Fn+arrows more mentally comfortable for PgUp/PgDown/Home/End - Media keys is great with leftmost group being audio, followed by display and then others - It's backlit - LED indicators for Caps and Fn A layout I might find even better is the japanese version(3). I would actually prefer to have the spacebar only as wide as VBN and have 2 more modifier keys left and right. This version however has one key to much to the left of the spacebar. (1) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.... (2) https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KBD-BO-TrackPoint-KBD-UK-English/p/4Y40X49520 https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa... (3) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_....
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  Unfortunately they just remind me of bad memories. The aftermarket external keyboards are the solution for me. > (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) Normally I would thank somebody for bringing something like this to my attention, but I actually don't even want to know and will try and blot this sentence out from my memory now.
  - alexvoda 5y ago
    Than, to your horror, here is how it looks (1). Thankfully it was only used on the Gen 2 of the X1 Carbon. The thing is, the concept of the touchbar (especially as technically implemented by Apple with a matte texture) is actually great. The great mistake was having it replace the Fn-row. If it was placed above the Fn-row, the touchbar would have been great. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ

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flyinghamster 5y ago

The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.

alexvoda 5y ago

I agree that there have been several misssteps (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) but I think there is a lot to like about the current itereation as seen on the T14 (1). It was even officialy converted into a wireless keyboard (2). Things I like in no paticular order: - Shape of keys: mostly flat chicklet but slightly scooped, rectangular with one curved edge, island style - Fn keys are separated in groups of 4 - Spacebar is exactly 5U long and alligned to CVBNM (I find verry annoying when this is not the case) - Modifier keys are vertically aligned to shift row keys - Home, End, Insert, Delete placement is reasonable (especially Esc is above ~, Delete is above Backspace and Insert is next to Delete) though I usually find Fn+arrows more mentally comfortable for PgUp/PgDown/Home/End - Media keys is great with leftmost group being audio, followed by display and then others - It's backlit - LED indicators for Caps and Fn A layout I might find even better is the japanese version(3). I would actually prefer to have the spacebar only as wide as VBN and have 2 more modifier keys left and right. This version however has one key to much to the left of the spacebar. (1) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.... (2) https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KBD-BO-TrackPoint-KBD-UK-English/p/4Y40X49520 https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa... (3) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_....

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
Unfortunately they just remind me of bad memories. The aftermarket external keyboards are the solution for me. > (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) Normally I would thank somebody for bringing something like this to my attention, but I actually don't even want to know and will try and blot this sentence out from my memory now.
- alexvoda 5y ago
  Than, to your horror, here is how it looks (1). Thankfully it was only used on the Gen 2 of the X1 Carbon. The thing is, the concept of the touchbar (especially as technically implemented by Apple with a matte texture) is actually great. The great mistake was having it replace the Fn-row. If it was placed above the Fn-row, the touchbar would have been great. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ